Dawn McCombs and John-Paul Byrne

00:08 My name is Dawn McCombs. I'm 52 years old. Today's date is Monday July 8th in Columbus, Ohio and my relationship to my partner is that I'm his wife.

00:20 My name is John Paul Bunyan. I am 51 years old. Today's date is Monday, July 8th 2019. We're in Columbus, Ohio, and this is my wife doing.

00:33 Jenna talked about how we met. Yes, please. Okay, so I met you.

00:42 In a weird way when I read your ad in the Village Voice.

00:49 Do you remember how that came about so I was in college in about 30 year I think has week old administrative. So it was in Australia or I was born and grew up. I was working at the time as a copy boy at a newspaper in Sydney the Sydney Morning Herald and I had an overnight shift which didn't require me to do very much work. So I was either working on College papers or sleeping all kind of running around the empty newspaper floor. Just picking up what I could and one late one Sunday night. I think it was on a there was a big table with a pile of newspapers from all around the world on it. And one of the newspapers was the Village Voice from New York City.

01:38 And I heard of The Village Voice never at that time. I've never been to New York City. But of course, it's in everybody's popular imagination. I'd heard of The Village Voice and I started reading it and read it all the way through cuz I was very bored and got to the classified section and I came across this.

02:01 I guess it was called they were personal ads back in the day. It's his way many many years before internet dating. This was me to 1990 I think.

02:11 And some of these ads kind of caught my eye. It was so very intellectual people cuz it was the Village Voice looking for like-minded people in different parts of the wall to car spawn with seemed pretty old-school seem pretty interested interesting and you know, I had a interest in making a connection with someone in the United States. So on the spot and on a whim my whip whipped out a an ad that the next day I mailed to the Village Voice and sure enough. I didn't know if think it was a few weeks later the add two.

02:46 And I had graduated from college and moved to New York City to be a nanny and I remember the first week that I lived there. I was wondering where all the fun stuff was happening in the city and I was out for a walk with the children. I was nannying going to the park and I saw this other woman also on the playground with children and I asked her. How do I find out what exciting things are going on in the city so that I can go to them and she said you need to find a copy of the Village Voice which by the way was a weekly paper. So every week a new paper would be printed and it was a free paper and I said, I'd never heard of The Village Voice and I said, well, where do I find?

03:46 And she said there's you know, you can go to any Deli and find this free paper. So when I was walking home from the park that day, I walked into a deli and picked up a Village Voice and saw that it had lots of, you know, different bands poetry readings articles about the city and it was exactly was looking for and that night as I was reading through it. I saw your ad and at that time my plan was to Nanny for one year and then go to Australia and I'd already applied for my visa to visit and had this all map dad had told the family that I was working for that I would be leaving in a year to go to Australia cuz I had it in my mind. This is my dream vacation and when I saw your ad I thought wow.

04:46 It might be kind of cool corresponding with somebody in Australia since I want to go there and I didn't know anybody there.

04:55 Wow, and on the side note, I just realized I think the Village Voice stopped publication a few years ago. I don't think it's around anymore. I feel like

05:08 Some elderly character of the Titanic talkin about gramophones and tea dances and things that just don't exist anymore like the Village Voice and personal ads themselves responded to your ad first. I think I got about a dozen was so responses you was being one of them and they all kind of came within a few days of one another and they will later the post guards and I kind of went through them and

05:38 Most of them I didn't find interesting or found off-putting for one reason or another. I really wasn't quite sure what I was looking for to be honest, but

05:48 You know, I think yours was one of the last ones that I got to know. It was really the only one that caught my attention. You know what honestly I've blanked it allowed at this point. There were few people who I think we're trying to be strike a pretentious pose like you look at me. I'm in New York City on this cool countercultural person coming to that affect them. I just kind of didn't

06:16 We can rub me rub me the wrong way just reading and I guess I think that was what if I know it sucks I can get from what I could gather from the letters, you know, it was old. I think that I think that was maybe one guy.

06:41 Repeat wasn't in jail. But yeah, I don't think any of them really struck a chord except yours and I think of you as if you hadn't happened to have seen the ad and responded that would have been the end of the experiment to cite.

06:57 You know that I I just wouldn't have continued to do that. Wow. So after I got that Village Voice that you only had the ad in for that one week I circled your ad because I was interested in corresponding with someone from Australia since I wanted to go there but I had an armoire in the bedroom where I was staying with the family that I was nannying for and I put it up on the top of the armoire and kind of forgot about it. And so then each week I would grab a new Village Voice read through it and continue to add it to the stack on top of the armoire and I remember

07:38 Must have been a couple of months had gone by and there was a stack of Village voices and I took them all down to put them into the recycling and you're the one that your ad was in fell down onto the floor and opened up and there was where I'd Circle that cuz I hadn't written a letter to you. I'd forgotten about it and then it fell down and there it was and I thought oh, I really should just write this letter and

08:12 I also felt that it was kind of serendipitous that it fell to the ground and opened up to that page. It just seemed to me like it was something that I should really do and I remember writing the letter. I don't remember what I said, although we have them in a giant I think potato chip can in our closet somewhere. That's where we kept them for a while but

08:37 I remember sending it off and then putting the rest of the papers in the recycling and waiting for a response which then I remember the mail took about seven days to get to one another.

08:51 And then you got my letter. Yeah what we were talking about two of the furthest spots on the planet destroyer in the east coast of the US. I think I usually took at least awake.

09:03 So it's very very delayed can way before way before email or the internet or any of that?

09:10 And I remember after I sent your letter out and then eventually a few weeks later getting your response.

09:20 And then I believe I promptly replied back and in my mind at that time, I was kind of I wasn't necessarily thinking romantically. I was thinking I was just going to be great to know one other human on this continent that I've never been to but I would say probably by letter number three. I was feeling kind of intrigued and excited to hear back from you. I wasn't looking to start anything quote on quote romantic who was more just making a connection with somebody completely outside my little body of water over there in a stroller and uniform a place that I found pretty intriguing.

10:13 But that you're right. I mean after going back and forth for a little while, you know and realizing that were.

10:21 You know different but a like on a lot of very fundamental levels, you know, I felt I definitely felt a connection. I remember you giving me lots of book recommendations like Aeneas men.

10:34 Or sending me poems by Giuseppe younger at day and finding definitely a connection with the types of books that we like to read and poetry and music and I don't quite remember when we started making cassette tapes of ourselves talking. Do you remember how far into it we started doing that probably about a third of the way in cuz I think we ended up going back and forth for roughly a year and I'd say

11:09 A few months in one of us. I forget who was had the bright idea to record cassette tapes again, very old school technology.

11:17 And that was

11:20 A little surreal at first, I think that was probably a few months into it and then

11:26 I remember when I got that first tape and listening to it in my walkman and hearing your voice for the first time was really

11:35 I just was very excited about that and listening to you talking as you were walking home from work or going about your day.

11:47 And I really like your accent. I remember especially.

11:53 Yeah, headsets funny you reminded me of I think most of those cassette tapes would just be who either of us kind of wandering around in our environment, you know, in my case the streets of Sydney in your case the streets of New York menu here all this, you know, I love and obviously each of us talkin and hear all this sort of ambient background noise and you going to some store or Cafe in New York City in order something and you leave the tape running and some heavy accented person would ask you to confirm your order or something like that. And you know, I definitely felt like I was projected into this very

12:39 Real very different environment just by listening to all those kind of background noises on the tape and imagine. It was probably similar in your end. Absolutely. Wow, the same buses and people and vaguely hearing different accents in the background as well when you were going about your day. Do you remember how many cassettes we made a lot enough that I couldn't even count, you know, probably a couple of dozen.

13:09 Do we still have this body wave a few? Yeah.

13:13 The other thing I remember from that year-long correspondence was I think you sent me just one picture of yourself and that was black and white you were in.

13:27 A photobooth and you had a banana peel on your head?

13:33 That's right. That's when I was traveling around Europe after getting out of college and Australian. I think that was a photo booth summer in the south of France.

13:45 I think I just wanted to be goofy and I happen to have eating a banana.

13:51 I liked it. It was good.

13:55 So then do I send you photos myself a few knock knock not a bunch, but if you you sent me a lot of photos that you taken just around the place.

14:07 Can tear film cameras so is a little bit of his bit more of a deal to take commit to taking the photo and commit to printing it out and all of that. But I think you'd gotten hold of a nice black mean a nice as SLR 35 millimeter camera at the time and you know your role into these set of taking these oxy looking shots so little

14:31 Stick figures propped up in the snow or something like that or pictures of interesting architecture.

14:37 I think one wasn't onion in the snow which was in a bizarre, but it kind of goes with the banana a little bit though.

14:45 I definitely in that year of corresponding to you fell in love with you. I remember feeling that way but I also remember finding that feeling to be a little odd because we never met in person and although we had the cassette tapes of our voices and our daily lives. We only had exchanged one or two photos. And so

15:14 I remember.

15:17 Very much feeling in love with you, but also wondering how much of it was real at the time. Do you do did you have thoughts like that? Of course, it's very hot. Not that I've ever done this, but I imagine it's very hard not to have that level of

15:35 Connection and almost intimacy corresponding with someone like that for a long. Of time and not have those kind of feelings do those kind of questions or thoughts. But yeah, you know, I have to say it. I tried to keep my expectations at the right level. I mean cuz you never know what somebody's like in person compared to how you imagine. They like based on lettuce.

16:02 And I remember calling you once which was

16:07 A little intimidating because I was terrified about how much the phone bill might cost cuz I think it was maybe $4 a minute and I think we were I think when I called you that was about a 12-hour time difference. So it was

16:30 The time is always topsy-turvy. It was in the I feel like it was in the middle of the night for you. The one time that we talked on the phone and you are falling asleep because I think it was pretty late. I think we only spoke for about five minutes a you were falling asleep and be it was expensive and I was really worried about how much my phone bill is going to be.

16:56 Yeah, that's that's right. Yeah, cuz I think I think the difference is usually 14 or 15 hours give or take daylight saving so it's somebody's over always says sleep deprived.

17:06 Yeah, I think I kind of felt when I was worried about the realness of you and what you would be like when I met you if I met you I thought somehow that phone call would be the closest that we would come before seeing each other in person where I would kind of figure that puzzle out, but I didn't I don't remember feeling

17:30 That the light bulb had totally gone on. Do you know what I mean? Like if I had this conversation with you somehow it's going to be revealed. You know, what like if you're really this person that I've been corresponding with

17:45 And then I know when it was close to me going to Sydney you were also winding down you were in Europe and because of all the snail mail and the distance or the time lapse between sending letters.

18:10 You were still I believe in your upper had just gotten back when I was flying to Australia.

18:18 I think

18:21 Do you remember that there was a little bit of a difference? I forget who got the cup at first. I think it was me. I think I got that first and I can't remember now if he sent me a letter telling me that you were back, but I assumed from the dates that you had given me that you were but

18:39 I know I didn't tell you the day that I was going to go to Australia.

18:43 Because I was afraid I guess how I felt was.

18:50 I got to know you on a level.

18:54 That I had never gotten with anybody that I've ever dated or been with romantically because I don't even remember us getting like sexy or anything. It was just getting to know each other like getting to know our souls almost and exchanging our innermost feelings and I never had that experience before where I had gotten to know someone so well over the course of a year, but hadn't even met them in person. It was something that I've never experienced and I felt

19:31 I really thought it was special and

19:36 When I got to Australia.

19:39 I made the decision that I wasn't going to contact you because I feared that if I met you in person then and you weren't that person that I thought that I was talking to for a whole year that this beautiful thing that happened in my life that it never happened before would somehow be ruined it would be less than what I had thought it was and so when I got to Australia

20:10 I made the decision that I wasn't going to reach out to you.

20:15 Interesting psychology

20:17 How long did that lost?

20:21 Well, I guess I never talk to you about this but when you had gotten back from your trip.

20:28 To Europe and you knew I was coming.

20:33 Did you remember when I was supposed to get there or?

20:38 Wonder if I was just going to arrive and call you when day or what were your thoughts cuz I don't think I've ever asked you got that. And were you wondering where you know, like if a few weeks had gone by were you wondering where I was?

20:59 Without I didn't know to the day but I had a sense of when you roughly when you arriving and I had a sense of time passing. So yeah, I was wondering

21:10 Yeah, so I remember I was staying in a hostel in Kings Cross and I think I was in Australia for 2 weeks maybe or 3 weeks and of course.

21:29 I vaguely remember walking around and someone would.

21:34 Pass me on the sidewalk and they might look somewhat like the person with the banana peel on his head and that black and white tiny photo booth picture and I would think oh what if that was him and I kept having these little thoughts or you know, what if I run into him

21:54 You know at a deli or something, I mean which in reality?

21:59 The chances of that would have been pretty slim English all that. I met at the hospital I was staying and we had quite a few beers and I told her all about you and I told her about this year-long correspondence and how I had fallen in love with you and how I had decided that I would rather keep this beautiful year-long letter exchanging relationship.

22:38 A live forever as this very special thing and not trying to ruin it by meeting you in person and she basically said are you bloody crazy? You've got to meet him?

22:56 And she kind of talked me into calling you. Of course. I had your phone number and to the extent and I

23:09 At first was resisting what she was asking me to do and then next thing I know I'm outside with her roaming around trying to find a pay phone to call you.

23:24 This is all very old school.

23:27 And then I remember calling you.

23:31 And

23:34 What were you what were your thoughts when I did?

23:37 I was glad that you called.

23:41 I was definitely looking forward to meeting you. I think we arrange to

23:47 Meet

23:48 The next day or the next night or something on the Sydney Harbour Bridge.

23:54 Which is like the iconic big bridge of Sydney.

23:59 So yeah, I think we both caught a train to this one. Stop this right at the foot of the bridge and that's why we met up.

24:10 And I think we ended up walking across the bridge which is you know, roughly a mile and a half wide and going to a cafe somewhere on the city side of the bridge and

24:23 Most definitely wait, it was our I can't remember what we talked about that. I think it was just going to catching up on what we've been up to and

24:32 Cuz we've been out of touch for a few weeks since the Lost exchange of lighters in Europe entombed. Yeah, we just caught up.

24:42 And what was your first impression when you saw me in person?

24:49 Probably you're taller than I expected.

24:53 Personality initially, you know, it seems aligned with what I'd come to know through the letters in the tapes and the Art phone call.

25:05 Yeah, I might first impression of you was that you were exactly who I thought I had been writing to.

25:15 And developed feelings for

25:18 Yeah, I'd say I'd say the same thing and some even if nobody's that that's not right never 100% for me anyway, but you know definitely pretty closely closely aligned no closely linked with what I imagine you'd like.

25:35 And then we

25:37 Spence I think

25:41 2 months together in that time. And then I had to leave to go back to the States. I was traveling Africa.

25:57 And

25:59 3 years went by I think after that and we wrote to one another still but it was more sporadic and spread apart. I remember and we both at that point had also met other people because we had decided. I remember when I was leaving that

26:23 We were too young. I think you were 23, and I was 24 at the time and we thought that we were too young to have a long distance relationship from Australia to from Sydney to New York City with only snail mail in the

26:41 Occasional phone call or cassette tape

26:45 And then about three years later.

26:51 I wanted to switch. I reached out to you because weirdly I was working at the Museum of Modern Art and they always had seasonal employees and they would always lay off a bunch of people over the summer and they laid off a bunch of people to start back in the fall and I was one of those people but they told us the day that we went to work and then I went home after losing my job and finding an eviction notice on my apartment door because I was subletting in the person I was subletting from had not paid rent and I thought okay lost my job and got evicted in the same day. What should I do? I think I'm going to call that hot man from Australia.

27:38 And see if

27:42 I can go there for a few months and just you know travel somewhere and that's when I called you.

27:50 So we

27:53 Ended up you came out and you stayed at

27:57 The warehouse where I was living the dilapidated Warehouse

28:02 And rats and chicken with rats and chickens for dinner and eating at dinner. And then I think that was media that you came out and then october-november started rolling around and

28:27 And we talked about it and decided we wanted to try to be together and seems pretty impulsive in hindsight, but

28:36 Logistically, we thought we get married at the registry office.

28:43 Again in Sydney and so we we went ahead and did that with no Witnesses and much to have parents freaked out when they found out later on that. We just figured on a practical level that would allow us to

29:00 Stay together and travel together more easily.

29:04 Spoiler alert, it didn't just a few months later week without going too far into the weeds. We found out we were pregnant with her first child Lucy who's now about to turn 24.

29:18 And

29:22 Trying to at the Time Warner in Australia that would say in Australia made more sense, you know more affordable affordable medical system and all that when you having a kid.

29:35 And the Australian immigration people said we don't care that you're married.

29:44 You meaning Dawn you need to leave.

29:47 And maybe we'll let you back in maybe we weren't so so much for the theory about getting married will Soulful immigration problems. So anyway, we ended up coming here quickly after turn around and get my green card and we move to the states.

30:06 And whenever that was July.

30:10 I think we landed July 3rd 1995. What was the day before July 4th?

30:17 And that's

30:21 And we stayed initially at your mother's house in rural, Ohio.

30:28 Couple a hundred fifty miles from where we are right now in Columbus.

30:33 Quickly realized it would no economic opportunities there. So move down to Columbus after a few months and he we stayed

30:43 Here we are. Here we are.

30:46 Two kids later

30:48 To go to Slater 20 almost Lucy's almost 24 and is he very?

30:57 Very well at least 16 and sometimes I think will not sometimes but often I thought.

31:05 It's kind of amazing that you thought to put an ad in the Village Voice.

31:13 And it was the first and last I had you put in and that was my very first Village Voice that I found.

31:21 And that even after I circled it.

31:25 If that huge stack of Village of voices hadn't had fallen and that one opened up and never would have written you.

31:37 And it's just the idea that all of that had to come together.

31:43 Makes me feel like this was all meant to be it's a little bit of like the the message probably a message in the bottle, isn't it? You know it since it was very random. I think if I remember right, I think at the time I was studying a lot of poets and writers in conceptual Otis Sue would generate ideas through random acts and you know, what lead to you know, great works of ahhh. So I thought I'd I was into back in doing things like that at the time and

32:12 That ad in the Village Voice was probably a good example of me doing that.

32:22 Me too.