Mike Watts and Humza Rahman

[00:03] MIKE WATTS: My name is Hamza Rahman. I am 30 years old. Today is July 7, 2023. I'm in Kalamazoo, Michigan. I'm here with Mike Watts. Mike is a volunteer who works with me at Kalamazoo. Loaves and fishes.

[00:22] HUMZA RAHMAN: My name is Mike Watts. I'm age 73. Today is July 7, 2023, here in Kalamazoo, Michigan. I'm here with my friend Hamza, who is my co worker and lead at Loaves and fishes.

[00:40] MIKE WATTS: Cool.

[00:43] HUMZA RAHMAN: Well, man, good afternoon to you.

[00:46] MIKE WATTS: Good afternoon to you. It's good to be here with you.

[00:48] HUMZA RAHMAN: Ditto.

[00:50] MIKE WATTS: Thank you for doing this. Thanks for agreeing to do this with me.

[00:53] HUMZA RAHMAN: Well, I was very surprised that you would ask me, but let's get her on.

[01:02] MIKE WATTS: Why does that surprise you?

[01:07] HUMZA RAHMAN: I've never been asked this before, so no one's ever trusted me before.

[01:15] MIKE WATTS: I trust you enough at work.

[01:17] HUMZA RAHMAN: Yes, you do.

[01:18] MIKE WATTS: You're doing a great job.

[01:19] HUMZA RAHMAN: Thank you.

[01:20] MIKE WATTS: You help us out a lot.

[01:22] HUMZA RAHMAN: I'm proud to be able to give back and help feed the needy and the hungry and or those that need the food. I thoroughly enjoy working with everyone that I've met and will continue to work there for a while. At least for another week.

[01:48] MIKE WATTS: Yeah, we'll take it one week at a time.

[01:52] HUMZA RAHMAN: Well, you know me.

[01:55] MIKE WATTS: Dude. I like your energy. I guess since we're talking about it, why did you pick loaves and fishes?

[02:06] HUMZA RAHMAN: I started looking around the places that I could volunteer at, and at the prodding of my wife, Pam, which told me, you need to get out of the house and do something. So that's when I reached out to Ray and went down to fill out a little application and started enjoying myself and helping out in the pantry.

[02:44] MIKE WATTS: I remember your first day. You called me a bastard. It was a fantastic first entrance and kind of set the tone well, for our relationship. Yeah, sure.

[02:58] HUMZA RAHMAN: I do not remember calling him that name. I do remember him. I do remember him pushing a cart to me and asking me to fill it up with dry goods. And I did tell you, why don't you do it yourself?

[03:17] MIKE WATTS: Why don't you do it yourself, you bastard?

[03:19] HUMZA RAHMAN: Oh, I don't remember that.

[03:22] MIKE WATTS: Maybe it was as I was walking away, and I just introduced you to somebody else, and I was like, this man over here, you gotta watch out for this Hamza He's got a certain type of. Certain type of wit, shall we say? I think I was introducing you to Maya.

[03:41] HUMZA RAHMAN: Yes. Yes.

[03:42] MIKE WATTS: Probably so, like, well, I'm nothing compared to that bastard over there.

[03:50] HUMZA RAHMAN: Oh, that was.

[03:51] MIKE WATTS: Yeah, it just got better from there.

[03:53] HUMZA RAHMAN: Yes. It did.

[03:58] MIKE WATTS: Well, tell me about your background vocals. You mentioned that briefly.

[04:06] HUMZA RAHMAN: Well, I started singing when I was a teenager. Never did have that great of a voice. I was in a christian folk group.

[04:17] MIKE WATTS: Gotcha.

[04:19] HUMZA RAHMAN: We toured the Southeast, was on WWL TV in New Orleans for a Christmas special.

[04:27] MIKE WATTS: Wow. Dang.

[04:29] HUMZA RAHMAN: And there's probably about at least a dozen people that are sang with.

[04:37] MIKE WATTS: And is this at once or throughout your experience?

[04:43] HUMZA RAHMAN: That is all at one time.

[04:44] MIKE WATTS: Oh, dang. So you were a big deal.

[04:47] HUMZA RAHMAN: Oh, no. When does that go through?

[04:49] MIKE WATTS: You're on the tv.

[04:52] HUMZA RAHMAN: Oh, somewhere. There's probably a film.

[04:56] MIKE WATTS: Is there really?

[04:57] HUMZA RAHMAN: I wouldn't doubt if it was on tv. This is probably 1969.

[05:04] MIKE WATTS: Okay. Was this through your church?

[05:07] HUMZA RAHMAN: Yes.

[05:08] MIKE WATTS: All right. How long did you sing after that?

[05:17] HUMZA RAHMAN: I didn't sing until after I got back here. Not back here, but to Kalamazoo. For moving from California?

[05:29] MIKE WATTS: That's right. Were you. You weren't born in California?

[05:32] HUMZA RAHMAN: No, I was not. I was born in Port Huron, Michigan. My earliest memories is living south of Dallas across the Trinity river and a roll house on the dirt road south of Dallas. From there, moved out to a small little town south of Dallas. 467 people. There's a farming community. My father worked for the city of Dallas as a surveyor, my mother dediction for hospitals.

[06:07] MIKE WATTS: Oh, wow.

[06:08] HUMZA RAHMAN: And the countryside was my playground.

[06:11] MIKE WATTS: So you grew up there?

[06:12] HUMZA RAHMAN: Yes.

[06:13] MIKE WATTS: Okay.

[06:14] HUMZA RAHMAN: So my earliest memories was about age three.

[06:20] MIKE WATTS: Right. Growing up outside of Dallas for four.

[06:23] HUMZA RAHMAN: Three to four, yeah.

[06:25] MIKE WATTS: How long were you there?

[06:30] HUMZA RAHMAN: From 1953 till I went in service in 1971. Overseas for 22 months on a three year stint, Germany and Italy. Came back to Dallas in 1974. Stayed there until 1984 and had to leave Texas because of all my exes. Couldn't stay in Texas and then lived out in San Francisco. Lived in California nine years. That's where I met my wife. August 3, 1986. 06:00 in the evening. In a fifties and sixties. Bebop bar.

[07:15] MIKE WATTS: That's right.

[07:15] HUMZA RAHMAN: In the haight Ashbury area. And we dated for two years. Got married September 1710:00. In the morning. September 17, on a yemenite cliff overlooking the Pacific Ocean called Sutro Heights. Our. Our get together after the wedding was on a 60 foot yacht on this San Francisco Bay for 6 hours. Five or 6 hours.

[07:45] MIKE WATTS: Nice.

[07:47] HUMZA RAHMAN: Then we left in 92. 93. Our son was born in 91.

[07:59] MIKE WATTS: Okay. Came straight here.

[08:03] HUMZA RAHMAN: Yes. Wanted our son to grow up to be with his in laws, outlaws and goofballs. And that's why we moved here. I know no one in my side of the family. Everyone was up northeast states.

[08:23] MIKE WATTS: Okay.

[08:25] HUMZA RAHMAN: So he grew up with his great cousins, aunts, uncles, grandparents, which I'd never do. Mine. It was great for him.

[08:38] MIKE WATTS: Yeah. That's pretty lucky he got to experience that.

[08:41] HUMZA RAHMAN: Yes. And in spite of his mother, he grew up absolutely wonderful.

[08:46] MIKE WATTS: In spite of his mother. Really?

[08:48] HUMZA RAHMAN: Yeah. She's gonna kill me.

[08:52] MIKE WATTS: Yeah. Sir. Man, if I know you, then that is saying something. Right?

[09:02] HUMZA RAHMAN: Our son kyle grew up to be an amazing young man. At age 16, he became a black belt in okinawan karate.

[09:10] MIKE WATTS: Wow.

[09:11] HUMZA RAHMAN: Very focused, very disciplined. Graduated high school portage northern. Izejdehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe went to Michigan state, mechanical engineering. Went back to California for about five years. Now he's in alexandria, Virginia.

[09:29] MIKE WATTS: Okay, what's he doing now?

[09:35] HUMZA RAHMAN: He is working for a company as a project manager. He got certified out in California and a company was one in that. And so he interviewed and they loved him and said, come on.

[09:56] MIKE WATTS: And you're a grandpa too, right?

[10:00] HUMZA RAHMAN: Oh, yes. Our grandson is Liam.

[10:03] MIKE WATTS: Liam.

[10:05] HUMZA RAHMAN: And he's now two years, a little over two years old.

[10:08] MIKE WATTS: Okay.

[10:10] HUMZA RAHMAN: And I've only been able to teach him one hand gesture. Touchdown.

[10:19] MIKE WATTS: Okay. It's not what I would have thought. Well, yeah.

[10:25] HUMZA RAHMAN: Kyle says I will not ever be able to babysit him by myself without adult supervision.

[10:32] MIKE WATTS: Smart.

[10:33] HUMZA RAHMAN: Probably, yes.

[10:37] MIKE WATTS: We don't need two kids in the same room.

[10:40] HUMZA RAHMAN: This is true. This is true. Very, very true. Yes. You have to grow, you know, no one is exempt from aging, but you are exempt from growing up.

[10:58] MIKE WATTS: Yeah. Live long, live young until you can't.

[11:03] HUMZA RAHMAN: Yes.

[11:06] MIKE WATTS: Do you get to see Liam?

[11:08] HUMZA RAHMAN: We've seen him about three times.

[11:11] MIKE WATTS: Okay.

[11:12] HUMZA RAHMAN: They've come back. They've come back three times here. So, including that and our time going to Alexandria, we've been there three times, so it's been about a total of six.

[11:26] MIKE WATTS: Good.

[11:27] HUMZA RAHMAN: So we visit them also out in California before they moved back east.

[11:32] MIKE WATTS: Okay, well, what is. What is a memory that haunts you to this day that you feel comfortable sharing with me?

[11:51] HUMZA RAHMAN: My father having a heart attack at age 52 to 53. Him being in hospital for six months and home for another year. Another memory not being able to control my hyperness, I guess they would call it add. And not being able to concentrate enough to finish college. I regret that.

[12:26] MIKE WATTS: What were you trying to do?

[12:29] HUMZA RAHMAN: I never knew. I've always been jealous of the people that went, this is what I want to do, and this is what I'm going to do. And they do it. Me, not so much. Yeah.

[12:44] MIKE WATTS: I've never felt that way either.

[12:46] HUMZA RAHMAN: So. Worked with my hands in the trades and was able to focus working with my hands was able to focus my mind, and I was able to work very well.

[13:00] MIKE WATTS: What did you do for most of your life?

[13:05] HUMZA RAHMAN: That's complicated. Started off as a macrofiche operator running computers. From there, I went to tech school, became an electronics tech, worked for NCR. From there, became a network administrator. Couldn't focus, lost the job. From there, went to learn how to do network wiring. And I did network wiring, fiber optics, and been a phone tech.

[13:46] MIKE WATTS: Okay. Communications, yes.

[13:52] HUMZA RAHMAN: Working by myself, which was good cause working by myself, at least you win most of your arguments. The other voices, sometimes they have good ideas, sometimes they don't. I said, as I've said, I have right brain, left brain. Since my last name is Watts, I have Watts World.

[14:18] MIKE WATTS: Beck way in the back, hanging out.

[14:20] HUMZA RAHMAN: Oh, yeah.

[14:21] MIKE WATTS: Oh, yeah.

[14:24] HUMZA RAHMAN: And that's fun.

[14:25] MIKE WATTS: Yeah. So tell me. Tell me about Watts World.

[14:29] HUMZA RAHMAN: Oh, no, no.

[14:32] MIKE WATTS: Give me a little taste, just a little taste of what's Watts world.

[14:35] HUMZA RAHMAN: No, I don't want to give you a little taste. I might want to explain that. Have two sides of it. One, which is the one side that I think is. I'm not sure who the author is. The day without laughter. It's just. That's one side. The other side is very, very dark, angry and hateful. So I have to be very, very, very careful when I deal with people.

[15:19] MIKE WATTS: Right. Where do you think? Hate is a strong word, though.

[15:27] HUMZA RAHMAN: Yes. Very angry.

[15:30] MIKE WATTS: Yeah.

[15:32] HUMZA RAHMAN: Most of my life has been filled with anger.

[15:37] MIKE WATTS: But.

[15:42] HUMZA RAHMAN: It took me 34 years to forgive my mother, so.

[15:54] MIKE WATTS: I.

[15:54] HUMZA RAHMAN: Don'T hold any grudges, so. And I dealt with depression and thoughts of suicide for 55 years.

[16:09] MIKE WATTS: Yeah, I feel that struggle, too.

[16:13] HUMZA RAHMAN: And so that was a struggle all my life.

[16:20] MIKE WATTS: I'm proud of you for still being here.

[16:24] HUMZA RAHMAN: Well, I am, too. You know, at a given time. I wrote something. I don't know if this is the correct time to. To read it or not, but I'll go ahead. It took me. I worked on this almost two years. I struggle every day between the good, the bad, the ugly, the past and the present. And I have accepted the trials that have become part of my life, as in dealing with the depression. I care because I have anger. I laugh because I have cried. I smile because I have touched the darkness. I encourage because I've been shown I didn't matter. I love because I have hated. I found hope, learned to live in spite of wanting to die.

[17:36] MIKE WATTS: That's beautiful.

[17:37] HUMZA RAHMAN: Thank you.

[17:40] MIKE WATTS: You wrote that?

[17:41] HUMZA RAHMAN: Yes.

[17:42] MIKE WATTS: Man, I love that.

[17:46] HUMZA RAHMAN: It took some redos. You know, I think I'll change this. I think I'll change that. But of course, a couple years to write it. Yes.

[17:56] MIKE WATTS: It really speaks to me. You can only. Especially about touching the darkness. And you can only smile once you do that.

[18:10] HUMZA RAHMAN: Yes, I do feel that.

[18:13] MIKE WATTS: Because you can't really know what's good until you have felt the bad.

[18:19] HUMZA RAHMAN: Absolutely.

[18:20] MIKE WATTS: And I guess it is about feeling, and that feeling leads to knowing, but it's hard to describe it. Right. I think you did a really good job describing these feelings that I also struggle with.

[18:40] HUMZA RAHMAN: My wife has gone on 35 years. She's helped me a lot. She's been very understanding, and I don't know if accepting, but always encouraging me to get help, which I didn't.

[19:01] MIKE WATTS: What stopped you?

[19:06] HUMZA RAHMAN: Good question. I've always been able to. Given enough time, always been able to work through and solve my problems on your own. I'm on.

[19:20] MIKE WATTS: Yeah. So sometimes you just can't. It's hard to accept.

[19:29] HUMZA RAHMAN: Yes. You have to work through it sometimes.

[19:33] MIKE WATTS: Well, it's okay to ask for help, too.

[19:36] HUMZA RAHMAN: I understand that. And I just never was able to take that step.

[19:43] MIKE WATTS: Yeah. It's hard to step outside of yourself and be vulnerable enough to admit that you need help in any way, shape, or form.

[19:52] HUMZA RAHMAN: Yeah. And that's where being an artist has helped write.

[19:58] MIKE WATTS: Your photos, your photography.

[20:00] HUMZA RAHMAN: I've touched on making stained glass. I have a couple pieces in my house.

[20:04] MIKE WATTS: Wow.

[20:05] HUMZA RAHMAN: That I've made.

[20:06] MIKE WATTS: When did you start your artistic journey?

[20:11] HUMZA RAHMAN: I started drawing when I was a teenager. Gave it up. I started. Did a stained glass class in San Jose. That was my first piece I did, and that's still hanging up. And then reintroduced myself to a stained glass shop and gallery here in Kalamazoo. Took a class there, did another piece, and decided I wanted to do clay next. Because if you make a mistake in glass, well, there's $60 to $80. If you do clay, well, that's a mistake. I'll just recycle it.

[20:57] MIKE WATTS: Right.

[20:58] HUMZA RAHMAN: Then went from there to photography, which is at this time, a better medium for me. Because if you don't like the photograph, just delete it.

[21:14] MIKE WATTS: Right.

[21:15] HUMZA RAHMAN: And retake the picture.

[21:19] MIKE WATTS: You know, they say that you should make the first photo the one that you want to keep, because I'm used to taking, you know, five at a time and just changing it just a little bit and adjusting it. But, yes, my brother told me, he's like, if you can't get it right in the first photo, then you need to adjust some perspective.

[21:41] HUMZA RAHMAN: And I finally got around to putting several collages up on the wall at home, I knew this. Seven on one side, eight on the other, next to the fireplace.

[21:56] MIKE WATTS: Wow. That's a good idea.

[21:58] HUMZA RAHMAN: Yeah.

[22:00] MIKE WATTS: Tell me about your favorite photo that you have taken yourself.

[22:04] HUMZA RAHMAN: The most moving photo was on the last trip to Alexandria. And we stopped by the flight 93 memorial. And as she was going into the grounds, they had a tower, which you call a tower of voices. And that was like, wow, that's moving. Then, of course, you went down to the memorial, then had a chance to go completely around to where it was. About 50 yards from where the plane hit in 911.

[22:55] MIKE WATTS: Right. Tell me about the tower of voices. Can you describe it?

[23:05] HUMZA RAHMAN: It's about 60 to 80ft tall, round, cylindrical. Trying to find the photo here has chimes in the middle.

[23:28] MIKE WATTS: Okay, so it's an art piece. And it's hollow.

[23:33] HUMZA RAHMAN: And this is the black and white.

[23:36] MIKE WATTS: Yeah.

[23:40] HUMZA RAHMAN: And that was one of my favorite. Living in California. California. The mountains and the ocean has its own song. It sings and you never get away from it.

[24:08] MIKE WATTS: Even if you leave, you still feel it?

[24:11] HUMZA RAHMAN: Oh, yes.

[24:12] MIKE WATTS: What does it feel like? What do you hear?

[24:19] HUMZA RAHMAN: The wind. The ocean crashing against the cliffs. The wind blowing through the trees, which usually blows probably 25 to 30 miles an hour, it seems like every day. And it's just. There's nothing like it. Feel the mist of the salt water hitting your face. Just stirs your heart.

[24:50] MIKE WATTS: You miss it.

[24:52] HUMZA RAHMAN: Yes.

[24:53] MIKE WATTS: Why don't you go back?

[24:56] HUMZA RAHMAN: Money.

[24:57] MIKE WATTS: Yeah.

[24:59] HUMZA RAHMAN: Well, we can go from home owners, homeowners to renters.

[25:05] MIKE WATTS: Yeah.

[25:06] HUMZA RAHMAN: And that sucks. Nope. Stay here.

[25:12] MIKE WATTS: You should at least go back and visit if you're able to.

[25:14] HUMZA RAHMAN: We do.

[25:15] MIKE WATTS: Good.

[25:17] HUMZA RAHMAN: And it's just a beautiful, beautiful time. When you walk along the ocean, you can block out everything in life to hear the waves crash and hear the sea lions barking on the rocks.

[25:41] MIKE WATTS: Can I ask what side of Mike.

[25:44] HUMZA RAHMAN: Comes out when you're on the beaches? I'm sorry?

[25:47] MIKE WATTS: What side of mike comes out when.

[25:49] HUMZA RAHMAN: You'Re on the beaches of California? The peaceful side. The chaos is gone, which has been so part of my life.

[26:02] MIKE WATTS: How do you find that side again?

[26:05] HUMZA RAHMAN: Which side?

[26:06] MIKE WATTS: That peaceful side. Because that's a new side of Mike that I haven't really heard about.

[26:12] HUMZA RAHMAN: No, the side you see is my wall.

[26:18] MIKE WATTS: Right.

[26:20] HUMZA RAHMAN: No one gets past that. Because if you do, then you'll see the inside of me, which I care. I'm compassionate. I love people. I've been. The gift that I've been given is hospitality. I give. I'm a giver. And I have found that by giving, you get stepped on a lot. So you're very selective when it comes to giving anything other than material things. Like when I threw clay, I gave 20% to 30% away every year. As you've seen at lowes and fishes, I've given probably 30 pictures away there. That's my gift to people.

[27:18] MIKE WATTS: It's funny because I do see that side of you that is compassionate and caring at work a lot. It does come out well.

[27:26] HUMZA RAHMAN: Thank you.

[27:26] MIKE WATTS: Mm hmm. You try to hide it, but you. It still comes out.

[27:31] HUMZA RAHMAN: Cause I've got this image I. This wild and crazy image that I have to uphold.

[27:38] MIKE WATTS: I don't think you have to.

[27:40] HUMZA RAHMAN: Oh, I do.

[27:41] MIKE WATTS: Mm hmm.

[27:42] HUMZA RAHMAN: That means people don't get. People don't want to get to know me. So it keeps everybody at bay.

[27:49] MIKE WATTS: Well, you couldn't.

[27:49] HUMZA RAHMAN: Can I ask another question? Yes, ma'am.

[27:52] MIKE WATTS: Seems like someone in the room does.

[27:53] HUMZA RAHMAN: Want to get to know you today.

[27:54] MIKE WATTS: Yeah.

[27:55] HUMZA RAHMAN: Can I ask you what made you bring Mike in?

[27:59] MIKE WATTS: Because, Mike, you sound like you were surprised.

[28:02] HUMZA RAHMAN: Yes, I was. Maybe, Hamza you could tell Mike what.

[28:06] MIKE WATTS: About him you wanted to learn about.

[28:08] HUMZA RAHMAN: Today or why you brought him into this space?

[28:12] MIKE WATTS: Well, when I hear you talk at work, I think you have a way of speaking that really draws people in. You drew me in with your jokes and all the wild stories you told me, even though it was just a little bit, right? Yeah, it was just little tastes, but it was especially your jokes. And you would set me up to believe a situation was totally real and then it would be totally fake. So I think that's a pretty good skill. And I find it very easy to talk to you.

[28:47] HUMZA RAHMAN: I know I have some stupid, stupid dad jokes. Yes.

[28:51] MIKE WATTS: You got one for me today?

[28:54] HUMZA RAHMAN: Yes, I do. Let me see if I can find it real quick.

[29:01] MIKE WATTS: Yeah, it seems like a daily, well, weekly occurrence.

[29:06] HUMZA RAHMAN: I try to. I try to bring in a stupid joke every week, and then you always.

[29:10] MIKE WATTS: Send me some, too.

[29:11] HUMZA RAHMAN: Yes, friend. What was that noise? Me. My shirt fell, friend. It sounded louder than that. Me, I was in it. Those are my. You've seen them. Those are my type of jokes.

[29:30] MIKE WATTS: Yeah, see, that's. That's great. That is the kind of love that drew me in. I think you are a lot more loving than you give yourself credit for.

[29:42] HUMZA RAHMAN: I hope so.

[29:43] MIKE WATTS: I feel it, and I appreciate you for it.

[29:46] HUMZA RAHMAN: Thank you very much. It's been an honor to work with such an amazing group of people. Loaves and fishes. I like 80% of everybody.

[30:00] MIKE WATTS: 80%?

[30:01] HUMZA RAHMAN: Yeah. I throw the other 20% over a cliff.

[30:03] MIKE WATTS: Yeah.

[30:06] HUMZA RAHMAN: No, not really. Why no, not really.

[30:09] MIKE WATTS: Why?

[30:10] HUMZA RAHMAN: No, no. No names. No, no. I like. I probably like about 95% other people just, you know, they aren't approachable, so I don't approach them. So I try to break. You know, I try to break the ice when I can, and I. Yeah.

[30:33] MIKE WATTS: I would argue that I don't feel very approachable, but you still kind of pulled me out of my shell a little bit.

[30:40] HUMZA RAHMAN: You're not approachable.

[30:41] MIKE WATTS: That's how I feel.

[30:42] HUMZA RAHMAN: Oh, no, you're easy. See, you're easy to throw that lion out there, and I got you hooked. Lion sinkers.

[30:49] MIKE WATTS: Oh, Hamza I appreciate that, but everybody has different perceptions.

[30:55] HUMZA RAHMAN: Yes, this is true.

[30:59] MIKE WATTS: I'm glad you feel that way.

[31:01] HUMZA RAHMAN: Thank you. Yeah. I've always felt you as extremely approachable, and you've got a great smile, great energy, and I love being around. Being around you.

[31:17] MIKE WATTS: Well, thank you, sir.

[31:18] HUMZA RAHMAN: Yeah. Tittle.

[31:20] MIKE WATTS: Yeah. Things are not over, though. I'm gonna see you next week at work. What are we gonna get into?

[31:31] HUMZA RAHMAN: I'll try to behave.

[31:32] MIKE WATTS: What type of mic is gonna come out?

[31:34] HUMZA RAHMAN: I try to behave myself. I do try. But with a group that's there at the pantry, we have a great group that works very, very, very well together, and we all kind of chip in where it needs to be chipped in at.

[31:56] MIKE WATTS: It's a pretty cool place.

[31:57] HUMZA RAHMAN: Yes, it is.

[32:00] MIKE WATTS: But you like to do other stuff around Kalamazoo, too. What all did you do today? What was the best part of your day today?

[32:13] HUMZA RAHMAN: Seeing my friend out in Richland.

[32:15] MIKE WATTS: Okay, which friend?

[32:18] HUMZA RAHMAN: A lady named Chris. And she helped me put a mat on one of my black and white photos.

[32:30] MIKE WATTS: Okay.

[32:31] HUMZA RAHMAN: And I've known her since the nineties.

[32:34] MIKE WATTS: Matte finish?

[32:35] HUMZA RAHMAN: No, put a matte. That's probably not.

[32:40] MIKE WATTS: I don't know anything about photography.

[32:42] HUMZA RAHMAN: So you gotta got your picture and you've got your frame that you put in. That is that you put around the photograph that you put inside of a picture frame.

[32:53] MIKE WATTS: Okay.

[32:55] HUMZA RAHMAN: So she helped me put one on and said I threw Clay with her back in the nineties and got to know her and her husband. Got to know her through Clay and husband. Just because he's married to her.

[33:09] MIKE WATTS: Right. By proxy.

[33:11] HUMZA RAHMAN: By proxy. And he's a great, great couple.

[33:15] MIKE WATTS: That's good.

[33:16] HUMZA RAHMAN: And then went down to see the music, hear the music on Bronson park.

[33:23] MIKE WATTS: What kind of music was it?

[33:30] HUMZA RAHMAN: I don't know. I don't know how to name the genre that the young lady was playing, but I try to go down there every Friday just to hear the music. Usually meet some friends down there and chit chat with them and listen to music. And if you're hungry, get something from the food trucks.

[33:52] MIKE WATTS: Mm hmm. You still sing at all?

[33:56] HUMZA RAHMAN: No.

[33:57] MIKE WATTS: No.

[33:58] HUMZA RAHMAN: Just not even in the shower anymore?

[34:01] MIKE WATTS: No.

[34:02] HUMZA RAHMAN: Why not in the car? Yes, maybe.

[34:04] MIKE WATTS: Okay. Doesn't feel as fun.

[34:09] HUMZA RAHMAN: No. I did enjoy it in the background vocals and occasionally solosheme and said I didn't have that great a voice, but I. It was fun getting up on stage in front of people. That's that altered ego of mine.

[34:32] MIKE WATTS: Yeah. You felt it even back then?

[34:34] HUMZA RAHMAN: Oh, yeah.

[34:34] MIKE WATTS: Is that where it started, you think, on stage?

[34:37] HUMZA RAHMAN: Yes.

[34:37] MIKE WATTS: Think that's where the wild mic came out.

[34:40] HUMZA RAHMAN: Well, the wild mic started coming out because I was. When I was younger, I was probably as big around as this bottle right here. I was very slender, skinny, and just same old, same old that so many people have before, you know, because I was slender, I got bullied. And so to offset that, I became a jokester.

[35:14] MIKE WATTS: Laugh through the pain.

[35:16] HUMZA RAHMAN: Yes. I think being in service helped a lot also.

[35:23] MIKE WATTS: What drew you to that?

[35:25] HUMZA RAHMAN: I'm sorry?

[35:25] MIKE WATTS: Was it because you were bullied, you wanted to do that?

[35:28] HUMZA RAHMAN: Yes. In service, you wasn't bullied. But, you know, through that being a ute, you know, and the skinny is a rail. So.

[35:46] MIKE WATTS: What does that mean to you?

[35:49] HUMZA RAHMAN: What?

[35:50] MIKE WATTS: A ute?

[35:51] HUMZA RAHMAN: Youth.

[35:52] MIKE WATTS: A youth.

[35:53] HUMZA RAHMAN: A young un.

[35:54] MIKE WATTS: A young un, yeah. Okay.

[35:57] HUMZA RAHMAN: My cousin Vinny, this is a line from my cousin Vinnie where, here's this lawyer from New Jersey, I think, was talking to a judge down south, and he says, these ute's. And the judge is going, what's a ute?

[36:14] MIKE WATTS: Yeah.

[36:15] HUMZA RAHMAN: And he was going, these youths. Great show. Great, great movie.

[36:23] MIKE WATTS: I'm very uncultured. I haven't seen a lot of movies.

[36:26] HUMZA RAHMAN: Joe. Joe Pesci. I think it was okay. Yeah.

[36:31] MIKE WATTS: See, I know who that is.

[36:33] HUMZA RAHMAN: Yeah. He was great in it. Yeah.

[36:41] MIKE WATTS: Do you have any regrets? I'm sure you have a lot. But what stays with you till this day.

[36:57] HUMZA RAHMAN: It would have, should have, could have in life.

[37:01] MIKE WATTS: All of them.

[37:02] HUMZA RAHMAN: Yeah.

[37:06] MIKE WATTS: Well, it sounds like your wife helped you a lot, though.

[37:10] HUMZA RAHMAN: Yeah. Just do the best you can sometimes.

[37:13] MIKE WATTS: Yeah. Hmm. What did, what did Pam say when you said you were coming down here?

[37:24] HUMZA RAHMAN: Be careful.

[37:25] MIKE WATTS: Really?

[37:26] HUMZA RAHMAN: Everybody said, be careful.

[37:28] MIKE WATTS: Why are they saying that, though?

[37:30] HUMZA RAHMAN: Watch, world.

[37:32] MIKE WATTS: I didn't feel it come out too much today. Oh, well, I think you're restraining yourself a little bit too much.

[37:38] HUMZA RAHMAN: Yes.

[37:38] MIKE WATTS: That's okay.

[37:39] HUMZA RAHMAN: Hopefully I didn't come across as a bore.

[37:43] MIKE WATTS: No, sir. You're never a bore.

[37:47] HUMZA RAHMAN: Thank you very much.

[37:49] MIKE WATTS: Of course. Thank you.

[37:51] HUMZA RAHMAN: Thank you for being my friend.

[37:52] MIKE WATTS: Thank you.