Pam Roach and Will Roach

00:02 We are now recording. This is will I'm here with my mother Pam. I am 34 years old and Roswell, Georgia. I am Pam Roach.

00:16 And I am 65 years old and I am in with you and Rossville Georgia. And the reason I wanted to have this conversation today was its mother's day is tomorrow and I wanted to be able to get your conversation in your history down for my two girls and be able to give them something that they could maybe be able to listen to later on down. They can still listen and hear your story pass on your daughter's very much. They both love you too. So I just kind of wanted to start off and let them get to know kind of how you grew up and what you were like when you were younger than, you know, you were from still country Pennsylvania. And just wanted to get a little bit more background and kind of how you grew up. And she said, I'm from southwestern Pennsylvania, which was big old Mining and steel mill workers, and my dad was a mill worker, and I was the oldest daughter of five children and was a boy, my, my brother Bob, and

01:16 I'd rather tell my sister Sandy and my younger sister Tracy. And we were born into a home and our grandmother. We were fortunate, grandmother live with us and they were tough times. Sometimes my daddy didn't have work and, you know, my grandmother's Social Security benefits, helped us, but, you know, you did. We didn't know we were poor. When we were little, we just realized we were poor when we grew up. But I'm I think that helped shape a work ethic and made me want to work hard to become something that would produce and would be beautiful in my community. So, you know, we we all grow up. We all went our own separate ways and but I always knew I wanted to get out of southwestern Pennsylvania. Like there weren't a lot of opportunities there unless you were going to be in the medical field as a nurse or doctor, or is it teacher? And so I worked hard to get to

02:16 West Virginia University Mountaineers, and I was attracted to a major psychology and work on Child Development is I always like it's way faster than I wanted to go into a year. Well, you mentioned you know, you were the oldest of the girls in your family that I feel like that probably played a role in in your in how you grew up in how you, alright, you know, I kind of used you as a, as a leader. You were willing to step up and make your voice heard. You know, how did, how did that kind of play into a roll of, you know, in that family life? When you were saying, you know, you didn't always know you were bored. But you know, you were the first, you know, the stuff is born. How have, you know, you have any, you know, as being the oldest daughter, your job was to watch over.

03:08 Others. And you were supposed to be the one that taught everybody how to do the right thing, which was not always easy, but a sense of Duty 4 somehow was always a part of me. And, you know, when I was in Middle School in southwestern, Pennsylvania was cold and back in those days girls had to wear dresses to school all the time. And that was during the age when the mini skirt that was in the late sixties and the miniskirts had arrived. And I had to walk to school everyday and it was, it was cold and I didn't think they'd like mini skirt. So you didn't have pantyhose back then. So they short short way above the knee and girls did not have pantyhose back. We'd have had some girls had to where you had to work tight. But if you were tall pipes didn't fit you, they were

04:08 It would be short with crotch. So you had to wear a garter belt in your to wear nylon stockings. Well, the problem with that was that your garter belt.

04:20 Fixtures, hung below your mini skirt and it was uncomfortable and it's hard to sit on them. And so as a walker you would we would put pants on under her husband have to take them off at the locker and think about yourself in an eighth or ninth grade girl. Pulling your pants down in front of your locker, to get yourself to school cuz we weren't allowed to wear pants in my ninth-grade year. I was the, I was the editor of the school newspaper and I just hate it. I hate it after we are those mini skirts? Because that's all it was there. So I read it. Wrote an editorial in my middle school and Junior High newspaper, asking the question. Why wear pants dungaree blue jeans?

05:02 You know, I can't keep us warm and I can recall that has a little bit of the store and I got called into the principal's office. And, you know, I was scared to death thinking that I had done something terribly wrong, but this kind gentleman is, principal asked me about my editorial and asked me if other people felt the same way. And I said, yes, I had people. And my Godly, we got the rule change for allowed to start wearing pants to school. Again, not only in middle school or junior high school, but it changed the rule for high school students as well. So, and that was back in the day when blue jeans or just everywhere. But wearing blue jeans to school was, I don't know why it was a big deal, but it was at that point. I'm so that was something that I was proud of and also was much more enjoyable. Walk to school and you're wearing blue jeans and sitting at a desk instead of having

05:57 Your girl still showing everywhere, not worried about the repercussions or writing that or did you have people that wanted to have you ride or what made you want to?

06:08 9 class and, you know, you could turn around and you could see girls, you know, it was embarrassing to you. No mini skirt. When you sit down at a school desk, you're the skirt was even further. So, you know, I was like all for all of us, you know, that we, that, that was all we had no choice. That's what we had to wear. When, you know, you can go shopping and all the clothes were many skirts. So you didn't really have a choice to buy anything else, anything else? Now a little later many which pin down to blow your knee came in and then Maxis with her better, but they weren't there yet. So we didn't have a lot of money to go out. So, you know, you'd buy a good pair of blue jeans to wear. Those bad boys for a week and then you wash them on a weekend where we can. So, you know a sense of Duty is what brought that on plus self-preservation. Yeah, but I mean, most people don't generally, you know, they might feel that way but most don't think they'll write a paper about it and get something to change. That's Dino.

07:08 That's interesting in this big, you know, it sounds cool to be able to say that the story and I never heard that story. But the pass it on the other one and Remy to let them know that, you know, you know, that sounds a lot like other one, but I just what I want to do. So were you, were you reading about that or were you like? So we were you trying to like, where was that readily information available to you? Or are you seeking it out where you have to do on that? You're still in that dominated male world? And I also was that look like, you know, do you have friends that were like, why are you reading into that? Why do you care or?

07:55 With a bunch of girls who fell.

07:58 That same way that we were on the cusp of something new. Something big, many of us grew up with mothers who stayed at home and live. The Leave it to Beaver life on phone or The Mamas, you know, you can run from school and the house was playing and that kind of thing. But you know, there was more, there was more out there and my mother always wanted more. She always wanted to be a part of something. What about this? One to work and she went out on her own and even drive until until I was in the 11th grade and even have a driver's permit in 11th grade, but she wanted to work. So she would walk down and catch a ride with somebody to go to work when she works in the clothing. Fact when she was doing that when she went back to work, maybe when I was at the end of my elementary-age like sick when I was in the sixth grade and that may just heard her doing that. Made an impression on you.

08:58 You know, she wanted her family to just have to have more to have better. And, you know, my father, he was a was a nice man, but he was content with whatever he had and she wanted more for us. She want us to have a better life, wanted us to have a better life than what she grew up with. So she would go out and work and, you know, there would be extra things around the house, but that, yeah, she had a lot of drive and you could not tell that, woman know, she'd find a way to that sounds like your daughter to and to prove that or ideas in her inclinations were something that we're right in her mind. So, you know, your grandma will support you 100% And she always supported me in whatever I did as I tried to do everything. I mean I tried

09:54 Sports and I tried, you know, the Arts and I tried, you know, I was in politics bicycle politics. I was the Secretary of my senior class and, you know, always I was a sports editor of my high school newspaper and captain of my girls basketball team. And when I was just saying you're so yeah, I guess you could say maybe leadership was in my

10:19 Am I make up a sense of Duty?

10:24 Speaking of being into sports and you mentioned, you had that group of friends who you hang out with you felt the same way where those the same friends that, you know, walk with you into the lady's office and high school and he demanded to have Title 9 if you want to play sports. Yes. I mean, how did that go? And she likes basketball. And she would, she had a group of us who had her in Spanish and she organized intramural so to speak and intramural girls, basketball team, bunch of ragtag. Girls like fresh out of college or to an older. She was okay. Okay, and the fact that

11:13 All she do is to dangle some carrots, you know in front of us and speak and get us motivated, but she organized us into a group of a basketball team and we would have practice. Should we would have practice at 2 to get places? Press have practice and there was girls who draw a head driver's license. So they come pick us up and we can go practice. We were horrible, but we had like little boys do so, she put us into it. I think it was a 9th grade and we went to, you know, it. Send me. Those are big-time numbers with Carol money that she was, but she was still living at home with her parents.

12:13 Look at that team. They're so good. They were, you know, there were two teams there that were sharp. And so we talked about we would talk on the way home in the car. And, you know, we knew about Title 9. So we said, why can't we have a team? So we marched ourselves into the ADP office who happened to be my dad's best friend.

12:34 And we demanded that we that we get a girl's basketball team, you know, and one of our girls who ended up being a lawyer, she talked about knowing our rights and we demand it and you know, we don't want to go to the Press if she was she was so, you know, they knew people so far behind Title 9. Where do you spell?

13:11 Distracting, you know, we didn't have opportunities. We did have, I think we had a gymnastics team but, you know, that's a limited. What were you? What were you guys supposed to do after school? Go home? Go home, go home. I kind of stuff. All the other kids. All the other kids get home. Did you go in during school or after school? I did was this like, five of you seven.

13:47 The time where was like you had to sit in the cafeteria and wait for the Bell to ring those people they dropped off and how long were you were you guys thinking I could do, was it just spur-of-the-moment or you guys stay in Thursday? Like we are. All you pass notes around. Thursday is the day. We're all walking in Pam. Keith keeps going in. Keeps going in.

14:09 Ordering a bass.

14:14 HR friend.

14:15 Are you guys are nuts? Probably encouraged us and said, you know, it's all you have to do is go in there and you have the rights to do that and he turned around and said he do it. But we had uniforms and shoes, you had a schedule and he, that lady was our coach the first year because he didn't have enough time to find somebody before season start, and it only took one season and he was done with us.

14:50 He was down with us complaining about. We know how come we don't like he was an older gentleman. So you didn't really teach us anything and he open the gym and he sat and while we didn't know, we didn't know about Blaze. We didn't know how to do, didn't know how to get ourselves ready for. You know, dish named Air Force officer and she ended up I guess getting a teaching degree and she was military. She didn't know anything about that, all the whole team had shin splints.

15:33 We could run up there on the 4th. And so we were whining and complaining and we went into him again and said she's horrible. He goes, he told us, get out of mouth. You got to make it work. So we were never very good but we were great friends and we had a lot of we had we had people that least games are games, you know, and it gave me a sense of a team of a team that I never had before, you know, we're playing on the other team working together, helping each other was something that is still with me today. Something special. So did those girls today? You know, they end up leaving the state too or did they stay? And, you know, I don't think I ever really know any of your friends if you talk about I mean, I have like the gal who

16:27 Was the lawyer, Ohio State. And she she's a practicing attorney and two of the gals.

16:40 And auto like a gas station. They are. So she's a minister and she worked with

16:56 Hospice work is in North Carolina. She move back. North Carolina where she was from Rachel Lee graduated in 77. But so that kind of, you know, having that kind of success, you know, being able to say that, you know, this best, you know, I'm not the second time in your life. Now that you had you know, you thought this is not right. This is not fair. This is what we're going to do and if you know what your way, you know, now you and then you decided, you know, you said it wasn't small town, you wanted more, you know, Grammy your mother taught you to the want more, you can't eat it and I said that, you know, you left, you left for the state without knowing anybody. You know, how scared were you? What were you thinking? And were you scared? Are you? You are wanting to go? Yeah.

17:48 Where am I? I don't know anything. So I, you know, they did the same thing when I graduate from West Virginia, you know, I've went to the University of Georgia for graduate school. It was the same thing excited. And then what in the world did I do? Like, I don't know anybody around here. They all talk funny. They speak such as such an accent that I can understand. But forced me to I'm cuz I'm basically I'm an introvert. So forced me to come out and talk to other people and send myself and throw myself out there, even though it's kind of scary. You got to meet new people, you know, get involved become part of the community.

18:31 Find that sense of Duty again and do something that gives me happiness. So you you're, you're at West Virginia. You don't know anybody, your your fresh. How do you, or you go, how it, how are you meeting people in a given year? You said, you had a team, you had basketball, then you you didn't did you do in the mirrors in college? How did you do while I was in a an all-female dorm? And that was kind of fun because you know a bunch of girls and girls like get the other. So you go into one room to another and chit chat share notes on things to do. We had Thursday night for we would go out as a group and meet people and you know, I always had like a class on Friday.

19:24 Yeah, you want to sleep in and then Saturday's football game. So, you know, it's kind of like when you go to kindergarten, you have that group of friends are always kind of have the soft spot in your heart for me or at least a couple of years until you went out and got your apartment and you know, so, you know, I mean you heard you're determined to stay there. You know, you don't have much money. How did you know what?

20:00 How do you know what or what drove you did to keep to keep it up to stay, you know, a lot of people could stop a lot of people could say it. If you know, it'd be cheaper to go back and state, you know, you you know what, you know why? I had no money, you know, like my loan the amount of money I got from my school loan was gone. So I took a semester off and I worked and save money and you figured out the system figured out how to access, you know, loans and different ways to finance your education. And I work from my sophomore year all the way through, I always had a job, had one or two jobs earn my keep have, you know, even when I talk, will you who do you felt like, you know?

20:57 Thought you do, you know, it's not easy to say, you know what? I'm going to take time off to work, but teach myself. What what's needed to be able to succeed. You know, that is something that a lot of people I find don't always have the ability to do either. They might stay stuck in the same thing, doing it without knowing, how to get out or they do, you know, they might, they might not know to pick up the book or they don't or they're just not willing to do it, you know, it, you know, I think of young on telephone and Remy to know to, you know, even if you're out, you know, you want to, you want to survive. So, you know, figure out a way to do it, you know, so how would you know, you think that was instincts for you or you in a bit? Someone help think that, you know, cuz I just thinking I'll still back then you know what that's still? What is 70s?

21:43 Do you know the girls still weren't you guys were fighting doing what you know, the ball at the bra burning and all that kind of stuff. But you know where you be married to be successful, you know, you don't have to have a husband to get what you want. You get. We're going to get involved in all that stuff in college. You know, where you going that route?

22:06 Wasn't that you didn't I didn't see it on my wife, no fans. Be somebody's wife and have babies and just live out in the boonies wasn't doing that. I knew there was a better place. Better way for me cuz I wanted to do something else. I mean I had I was a pretty good writer as far as you know, editing and but I didn't like right and it was always, the deadline was always think, my life is always stressful and I didn't want to do that. I'll always like kids. And so the child development in Psychology that I studied. I felt like that was something that I can use for something else until I realized will, you know, you have a Ph.D.

23:02 I'm so going to Georgia and find a

23:08 Graduate work in human development and family studies was a great way to for me to mail what I learned for Child Development, and learn some more about family life, and our families, and children, and parents, and how we all work together to be, who we are, was great, but

23:30 That certainly wasn't going to be something that was going to be.

23:33 A position that I can really put my finger on, like what am I going to do with that either? So, you know I Met Your Dad and he was in law school and we got married and I work or the extension service for a while and in a lifetime pass to the Beach Myrtle Beach. And then I started having baby. Let's go go back and I said, you decided from West Virginia. You get your one of the first. I mean, you're one of the first kids and your family to get a degree, right? I mean you were you the first or

24:10 Yeah. That's a pretty big deal. I mean, that's what that's the Cornerstone. You know, that's something you know, you're the in your life and your girl be the first girl and your family to get a degree. And how many after you ended up getting a degree of my sister only girl in your family to get a degree.

24:33 My brother down there. So I talked him into coming down to go to school since, you know, but my sisters daughters and talk to them and they both went school, one finish, any story, you know, but, you know one left and she's being too successful. The other two went back to your graduating senior. You just thinking. What do I need to do next? Why I mean yug is, why did you why Georgia? Why did Why move from the north to the South?

25:07 You never been 4 years in West Virginia in the fold and unfold for 4 years and lived in the snow that the South looked great. And you know, this is silly but I used to watch on Thanksgiving, every Thanksgiving. Watch the Georgia Tech, Georgia game on television. I read it for Georgia Tech. However, when I look at graduate programs Door, Check wasn't going to be. For me. I wasn't an engineer. I never even knew you looked at your today is Brian's now. No, I didn't I didn't look into it as far as getting the cats and I looked at their catalog and I thought the one of my professors. So I respected tremendously in the department of psychology and she suggested that, that would be great.

26:07 Way to get a graduate degree in an area that I was interested in studying the North Carolina, where my friend who was my basketball, team h, g Interceptor drove me to Athens, Georgia from Durham North Carolina and drop me off at my dorm and they went back and there you are again, where am I?

26:39 Had map. And then I was like this. And I thought West Virginia was the campus of the University of Georgia.

26:47 Let me that's pretty resourceful. You know, that's something you know, just, you know, I just keep looking back at her, LOL and Remy, I can see them both. You know, what would you went in? And what would you say to them? If they did a god girls do it? They were having doubts or if you need me the time that they were down there thinking they could do it and have you ever had my battery. Where would you say, you know, it yourself up just do it this morning, but you know, some Brian spell, you figure out how you going to, how you going to make it work. So you that I had assumed, that's what you did at Georgia. So you're at Graduate School of Georgia, in the 80s. Herschel Walker, be able to go watch football.

27:47 What do you feel? Do? You know, looking back? Do you feel like I know it's, you know, I don't know how to phrase. The question you feel like. You were the still the same kind of girl, from Pennsylvania to feel like you entered through traveling and in being able to be on your own.

28:11 You're forced to prioritize your Force to let the little stuff go away. It's not important and, and figure out like, what is it? That I want. Dude? What is it that I need in order to get what I want and I got a you will fight for it and you will work hard for it, and you do know, you won't let you know and you're going to have a little stumbles, you're going to have a little mistake. You're going to have to learn from their mistakes. As you know, I'd rather let l o n or Remy scrape a knee and tell and say I told you so you shouldn't have done it versus you know, it just picking them up and taking them away from it harder for me to watch my grandbabies make mistakes. So I appreciate the fact that you call me on it, a lot. Call me back so that I can let them learn from

29:10 Cuz I sure as heck let you learn from your yeah. I mean, you know, you continue pushing. So you're you're going through UGA. You know, what you want to do. You're getting a graduate degree. You know, you meet meet Dad, you start. Do you know, did you start going down a path that you still saw yourself going down or you know, did it ended up changing? It didn't change cuz I also wanted to have a PhD and teaching a situation and

29:43 The degree that I was working on it UGA.

29:48 It was a new Department. It was it was floundering a little bit. You know, I felt like I wasn't getting what I want. What I really wanted. I didn't see a future in getting a graduate degree there. And so, I did some research to see what I can do. Use my degree Whip and I found the extension service with the fell in love with the training was very successful, became the new agent of the year for my metro area and work. Love working with the 4-H kids. It was a wonderful experience and there was an aspect of teaching there with regard to adult home, economics, and and then teaching the kids found out that teaching is where I

30:46 My heart was with kiddos and you know that we start having a family moved back to Atlanta and family didn't want to put you all in a situation where somebody else was racing. You. So my stuff went on the back burner while I raised three kiddos. I mean, I mean sounds like that would be something hard and maybe do saying, you know, being knowing that you wanted to do what you wanted to do and you were so

31:19 Moms moms on the back burner for something else, huh? I mean, so what you want. I mean, you know, yeah, I take your your stories and hear that. And, and, you know it, then I look at it at your life. And, you know, I I I see the same kind of thing, you know, you push so hard. You keep our family together and keep us going. You were willing, you know, him. You might not have gotten a bus and why.

31:54 Do I get a job, but you definitely, you know, you drove kids in high school to get learner's permit, just to keep us, you know, having money and doing that and did that yesterday. I mean, those are all stuff that I, you know, that I try and take and and, and put the remedy and alewine and, you know, make sure that they have

32:17 That kind of teachings in Stockton.

32:20 Find guess what? You married a woman that has the same kind of out, right? So I just wanted, you know, I wanted to make sure that we with your story down and I wanted to let alone and let me know that you know, where they see some of that fire and comes from roro. It comes from Mom from Daddy and they'd seen others those mistakes and skins me used, you know, we went through that some of those and and push through it as well to.

32:55 Hello. Can what is your what it what is your parents? Think about? You going to West Virginia and going to Georgia? Like, did you ever did they, swear they fully supportive of my mom was my mother was very supportive. She understood that I wanted to get away and find my way in this world. But my father always thought, I was just going down to find a husband, which like, infuriated me. And so he, you know, when he said that to me one time I told, you know, my whole, my whole feeling was well, I'll show you old man. So I thought he was proud of me, but I don't think he'd ever liked. Was he was not encouraging ever, you know, but I did need his encouragement. I mean I had enough intrinsically. What I wanted to do with my life that you know, if he gave me any encouragement 5, I'm probably my mother's and encouragement.

33:55 Was enough to sustain but I need it from a parent.

34:01 And was there any type of going to just going back to your dad a little bit? So when you, when you

34:07 Down here and find a husband like wizard wizard wizard, any kind of like, you know, I told you so or from your dad know, he never did that. That's good. You know, he never he never did that. I think he just felt like I think he realized that it didn't matter what he was going to say to me or what he implied. I was going to do what I was going to do. No matter what. So now he never did that. It was such a quiet kind of a easy-going and laid-back. Like my father thought. I think he thought that once he got you out of high school, when she got out of high school. I used time for you to go find your way. And that way he thought traditionally was going to get a husband. Don't find a husband who he's going to take care of you now, which was so not what I was interested to know that.

35:02 I want just passed. How would you? How would you, how would you like to be remembered? I know you got a lot of years left. But just, how would you like to be remembered?

35:16 I don't know. Somebody who.

35:21 Did what was right?

35:24 Duty. What Duty comes first? Do what's right, and if you're going to do something, do do it well, but learn from your mistakes, cuz they're always coming.

35:34 Cool. Thank you. Thank you both enjoyed it.