Phyllis Van Wanseele and Toddy Yeats

00:01 My name is Phyllis van wanseele IM 74 years old. Today's date is January 15th 2020.

00:10 We are on the Barona Indian reservation in San Diego County, California and I'm with my sister tie or yeah, that's your right name and she is my sister.

00:27 My name is toddy Yeats. I am 68 today is January 15th 2020. We are currently on the Barona Indian Reservation, which is our home my home. I'm here with my sister Phyllis van wanseele. She is my sister.

00:48 Phyllis you and I were walking this morning and we thought what are we going to talk about it? You don't we grew up next to the church that our house is right next to the church. So we're involved with a lot of church activities. Grandma was very You Know instrumental in our faith and then our Dad or Mom then our dad and now

01:12 But I wanted to talk about the activities of the church that we were involved with. I know we continue you and I fell as continue to you have the custom of the November 2nd grave decorating and we get the family you and I get the family together month before November 2nd and all the women in the family. Our granddaughter's our daughter-in-laws ourselves our sister-in-law even and we make wreaths for the graves of our relatives are deceased relatives in our parents. Did that our mothers did that our grandmothers you that and we just wanted to continue that so we just you know, so you and I decided to to get the girls together in the family and do that tradition. I know it's not as much as it used to be because talking with our aunt.

02:10 She mentioned and maybe you can talk about what she talked about with the getting all the women and children inside the church on November 2nd Quizlet are the day before November 2nd that they were bring the women and children inside the church. I think it was November 2nd and November 2nd is All Souls day in the Catholic church. I know a lot of churches celebrate All Saints Day as the big day, but in our community All Saints is is fine for the church, but All Souls day was reserved for special remembrance of those who have gone before us and I've come to have a real affiliation with the spirits that have been here before and all the sacrifices that they made for me to be here today. I know that at that time of year when we celebrate them.

03:09 We get to repeat their names in the graveyard. And again, they come alive people that I knew as a kid. I see their faces. I remember the Caroline's Grandma. I remember Uncle John I remember Aunt Dora. I remember all these people who are no longer with us, but it one time of my life when I was a kid. They were around they were happy. I see there's faces and when our godmother told us the story, you know, I even vaguely remembered something about that. I must have been really small maybe two years old, but her story was that at on All Souls day. They had the women and the children go into the church and it was evening after the candle lighting the doors were closed and

04:05 The spirits would come the spirits that we had celebrated at the graveyard would come to the church in an actuality. It was really the man who are out there pounding the windows counting the doors making sounds that that were people who are coming to visit. And as I said, I think I remember vaguely in hearing that but I don't know when it stopped.

04:37 I know that as I got older I don't remember that Tradition at all. It became more involved with going to the graveyard decorating and having ceremony at the grave sites and remembering and workmen were saying lighting candles. That's the big beautiful part of the moment no matter what time of year be at cold wet, rainy we're out there and celebrating the life of those that went on before us with the candle. We light a candle and put it on the graves at those that we want to remember so we can like light up the night with their life, you know, that's that's the way I see it. I don't know how you see it. But that's one of the most beautiful times of the year for me is that time when we get to to share our memories of those people who have gone before us

05:32 Well, I like it cuz the community August against the only time at the church besides a sad time of funeral that all the community comes in. We've had people no longer involved with the Catholic church, but they come to honor their relatives their ancestors. They come that night that people we haven't seen maybe all year long will run into them at the cemetery on the daytime when were decorating the graves will see them and we just, you know, we can be cheerful and talk with them and ask them how it's going and I I really enjoy that and then like you say in the evening fellas we are we get together and we light the candles and we know we got our grandchildren and some of them have their great-grandchildren there, but it seemed like to me that something that will not die in a lot of our traditions and Customs, you know, I would

06:24 I see are no longer in a Happening Here on the reservation. But this is one I feel a little continue on and I really did really makes me feel good inside to to have in order to have that continue on. So as you say it's a it's a beautiful tradition and I'm glad we continue and we honor it but they're honoring our parents that it's speaking about tradition. Another thing because we live so close to the church.

06:53 Back in the day when there was no telephones and when there was a few houses on the reservation and we live in a valley so that sound Echoes throughout the valley.

07:06 The church had to bells to bell towers.

07:11 And it only rang on Sunday mass when we would have church. They would ring the bells except when someone passed away.

07:24 The bells would ring.

07:26 That could be in the night. It could be in the middle of the day early morning.

07:32 And to this day that tradition still exist.

07:36 When people pass away one of the first things people say is who's going to ring the bell because when the bell rings it lets the community know that someone has passed and I live close to the church. I don't know now that the houses have better soundproofing and it's not so cold as it used to be in our houses cuz we have insulation. I remember the days we didn't have insulation. It was pretty chilly sound could get into the houses, but on the reservation a lot of people don't hear it. And since I live close to the church, I hear the bells ringing it makes me sad and I try to look out the window to see who's ringing the bell so I know what family has experienced a loss and that tradition still exist, even though we've got internet with God Facebook and Instagram and texting the ringing of the Bells is still a tradition that

08:36 I feel connect me to the Past it's gone by I hope that continues.

08:42 Have to be somebody moving into your house, but going up on that house. I was nine when we move from that house next to the church, but I remember going up on that house where we had no electricity.

09:01 We had kerosene heaters. Did we have wood wood stove before the kerosene heaters on that house. We never had would still had that we had an outhouse. Oh, yeah. It was right behind the church, right? And I remember on Sunday. It seems inevitable that I had to go to the bathroom right before church started walk out there.

09:27 In front I felt in front of everybody was looking at me that they were going into the church at that time and to use the bathroom. There was so embarrassing for me. How did you feel about that?

09:39 Well, I remember one year when it was Halloween and some of the young men on the reservation. I guess it must have been like 13 or 14 years old kids. They knocked over our toilet. But I do remember that they knocked over our toilet and that was that was embarrassing in itself again, you know, and they laughed and ran off and yeah, but yeah, I too felt the same way again, especially in the mornings when it was cold outside. Of course, the first thing to do when you wake up is usually have to use the commode so throw on a pair of a jacket and some shoes and dash out there and dash back again. It was a lot of jokes about outhouses. I'm sure people who have a experiences with them know about like using

10:32 What was it catalogs, you take catalogs out there for a tissue paper for to use we had catalogs newspapers before we had the soft stuff. So and then there be like some people we talked about having a two-holer as opposed to a one hole or two or your life. Would you like to be in a $2? I don't know but when you need an emergency app in my mom would get that big old. But are you call that thing with your galvanized wash tub? Right and we take our take our baths in there.

11:18 If she could catch me I hate it bath time is the worst time ever. I do I don't remember the order. I think we must have bathed maybe once a week was it I don't I remember she would put it in the kitchen and turn on the gas stove so that the kitchen would get real warm cuz we didn't have central heat and she get the kitchen real warm and then have that big tub of hot water and there were three of us that had to take a bath. So me you and Sam are brother he

11:54 We all had to take a bath and probably was like Sunday before going to school on Monday. It seems to me cuz we always had to get ready for school. You know, what I'm sure taking a bath was part of that. You know, my mom always wanted me to have a clean shoes and socks and underwear. What about the famous underwear?

12:15 Have clean underwear in case you're getting a pirate talk about that. I having to the heater unless the oven on when we found that baby chick. We brought it into the house and they had to warm it up in that oven. Keep it nice and warm in there and then it got got too big. So I had to take that chick outside because I'm pleased the Joe little little little Joe took them out there and it's a beautiful chicken red shiny. I remember that chicken is well, we didn't have pets. We we had a dog at one time Dad was really good with dogs. He had like like a real dog whisperer, you know him and dogs you could train them to roll over and jump up and Obey him and

13:11 But the pet that we had was that chicken and we bet it with chicken feed. So it grow fatter and fatter and bigger and taller. It look like a rooster it was so well fed and taken care of and I burn out the only one that noticed how beautiful that chicken was far away from the house and the dogs attacked him and killed him and ran off with him. I got broken hearted. It was I was very brokenhearted when I saw that cuz there was nothing we could do the dog had the chicken in his mouth and ran down the road. He had a really good dinner, but we were heartbroken and cried and cried and cried but we always had chicken so around their mom and dad would put you no matter fact for meat we didn't really have to then I'll go far dad would go shoot rabbits for us and deer every now and then I don't really remember dear as much as I do eating rabbit. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

14:11 Cottontail rabbits get them in the backyard. Just pull their skin off it was

14:18 Something that he did I didn't think it was that girl is but but I was in school I'd say oh, yeah, we had rabbits. I'm going to go to do you hate Bambi? I know that was there are no my God didn't think of it. A rabbit is being a pet. That just was more of food food. So we were we're pretty I consider that being well State we had meat we have beans rise. I said your mom sister Diaz remember they were if you let him get too cold to get hard as a rock so you try to make tortillas.

15:03 With the wood stove that she had to stokin get all hot. And I remember those days with Grandma at her house. And then when she made the tortillas right on the iron Stove Top and the smell of the cooking tortillas and the butter that we put on afterwards all my gosh that memory is it in your mouth. I when I have my own flour tortilla and put some butter on it. That's hot I think about being a kid and having that hot tortilla in the melted butter in my mouth. It brings back that memory and it's really good to get a grandma memory supposed that blowing in her hair.

15:49 Maybe that's why I dye my hair today give you honor my grandma.

15:58 Let me know when you talk about Grandmas hair. I remember grandma with long hair and before hair dryers she would watch her hair. Like you said in the kitchen sink and then go outside and her long wet hair. She would flicker head back and forth back and forth. The hair would exceed the gray long strands of hair flipping up in the air and back back forward and down back and forth repeatedly to dry her hair. I don't know how long she did because I probably have to do that a long time to actually try it. But I guess it got all the water out of it out of her hair, but I remember that do remember that no, I don't remember that at all. This smoke that remembers you roll it when the paper for her and roll it up and she'd be smoke them at the Bull Durham. But anyway, what I remember about that part is I snuck wanna roll my first the last cigarette I ever had.

16:58 So you actually rolled a cigarette cuz you watched her and you buy noodle tongue over the ads yet Grandma did.

17:07 But like I said when it when they eat when they have those forms that you ever smoked like. Oh, yeah. I did. Did you ever steal?

17:21 And then we had that the turkey shoots for fundraisers for the church. Our dad was in charge of that and one year Peter came up because I thought we killed the real turkeys, but all just targets. I don't remember that. That was what fundraiser that we got together got the community together for another Community event to raise money for the church and then the barbecue

17:50 There are the reservations at imboden San Isabel have a barbecue and who else had a barbeque Paula maybe had a barbeque Paula had something like Corpus Christi celebration up there, but they were all fundraisers. We have the game boost for the kids. That was so much. So I spend mom would run. What do you call that? The fish the fish the fish away fish oil is a college park the fish pond. It's alright and the different other game is bliss, but I can't remember what they were but that was fun as a kid and I remember when mom brought bought as a first prize your sell raffle tickets to raise money was a bridal doll. She had it at the house that I loved that doll so much I want to do it. It's so bad.

18:49 So she gave me a butt like five tickets for me. I don't know that's a lot of money. She bought me five tickets. And before they had to dry and I went inside the church and I just prayed and prayed and prayed and thank goodness with that dries like the end of the event. So people are leaving. So people who bought tickets didn't really, you know, we're probably just wanted to donate they don't want a bridal doll and they have called about 6 numbers before they called my number and I won the bridal do the biggest day of my life. Never forget that biggest day of my life or under Bridal though so much fun to talk to you a lot about prayer, huh?

19:27 Yeah, you know. They used to call me his Saint so I must have saw something in me that I didn't see as my daughter says they form you that way they made you that way maybe you weren't that way. But because people told you you were that way you became that way like they say when you're driving you see a rock on the road. You're not going to hit am not going to get it cuz you're thinking about it all the time. Maybe that's true. And when you say Tata, that's from the Native word in. Which means you are mother father. That's why we called him taught the same thing with pal pal new pop pimple is the father on your father's side. So I grandfather we called and pow pow, but it was from Nepal.

20:20 And then thought those are just simple words but exactly weed. I regret not learning the language that my parents spoke, but Dad always said it's a dead language. I don't want my kids to know that if you want to succeed you need to speak English. And so they never took the effort to teach us both were native speakers. One of the last native speakers that we have around with my dad when he passed. So you're the same dad is mine is our dad. My dad to was yeah. Yeah.

21:06 Who else what else would you like to talk about? The only thing I had in mind was about the about our church activities?

21:15 Growing up here. I know Sam Brother Sam not know where you're with this when he uses we used to go up those caves in the back of the house up there in the Hills someplace. I don't know where we go. But I remember we went to one cave and there was like a

21:30 I swear it's like a glowing bright orange lizard her something scared me, but I don't think the kids go out anymore tell to venture out. I remember we would have to you and I would have to get up wall got up in the morning. And then we block the pretty much locked us out of the house until it was time to you know for us to come home. I don't ever remember eating lunch you to be able to touch you know, what I don't think so either. She never called us until it got Sunset that yeah, that's another thing about modern-day. Now, you know people people lock their doors. We never lock their doors. And of course there was no television if we had a TV. I'm sure we would have statins inside the house and watch TV, but we had no television. We barely had electricity.

22:19 But the a kid's day during my time was to go out the door use your imagination. Climb Hills. Gold Cross rocks get all scratched up. I remember my feet were so calloused. I never felt rocks. I never felt stickers. I just ran out Barefoot all over the place in the ground must have been hot cold. Whatever. I didn't feel anything. I remember when I got stepped on a nail or something and Mom would get that she got to cut a lemon slice and put it on my leg of a guy like it was on the hill and she put the lemon slice bear and wrapped it around with not Gods but probably piece of material or something rather than later. I looked at it. It was all white. It just sucked. All whatever was in there out. So that was that was my Neosporin of the time I get there.

23:19 Was my with the lemon slice and I remember when our grandfather Sam Brown pass that his wife passed away. Dad put potatoes on her head for a fever. They said slices the potatoes to the counter to it easier to cool at all four or something. I didn't know that and when she died they found they had shared a coin on her head in the middle of her forehead. I don't know why that was why do you know before they were used in the potatoes with the maid? Maybe I maybe should already passed. I don't know but I remember Mom putting potatoes on my head and that was because I had a headache again. I don't know what the deal was with the case was psychosomatic or whatever you're thinking that the potato was going to draw something out of my head. But I remember her wrapped in my head with potato. I slices of potatoes put in my head and put that done. Well, I just assumed it.

24:19 For fever, maybe it was headache for her that passed away. I don't know.

24:25 You know when you mentioned material wrapping for the headaches and the

24:32 And your foot that's another tradition back to when people pass back in the day.

24:41 People had to come from far far away and it took days but with horse and buggy and horses, so when they got to the services.

24:54 And the body was placed in the ground and covered up with the dirt and cross placed. They would the the family that lost that individual would throw material or cloth on to the grave and people who weren't family would would be called to take the cloth and again back in the day that material was used to make clothes and to make shirts and as at as a thank you to the people who would come to to honor though the person who passed and now today they still do that and not very many people so anymore, but I know that like some people use bits and pieces of those cloths to make like quilts and that would that would be another thing that I guess they did back in the day, too, but that's

25:54 Tradition that still continues is the putting cloth on the graveyard and now it's expanded to clothes for like a victim and they put hats and shirts and belts and shoes.

26:08 That I don't know how long that tradition can last cuz like all the material stores are closing out there, you know because people don't sell anymore they can get it a cheap thing from

26:22 From the store for less than you can make an outfit for

26:26 Talking about funerals. I remember our grandfather Sam Brown when he used to go up to the casket and he would cry and cry and cry like a like the professional Cryer's, you know, a Joel. Yeah, just it just come from inside and just hurt as much as he cried the way he cried and then it blow his nose and it stand up and he talk in the language about the person about so and you know, of course you and I both go to language classes and maybe we would have known more about who what he was talking about about the person but I'm sure it was beautiful, but that's one thing they don't do anymore. But I really I thought that was a great thing that he did maybe it was a eulogy and some respect, you know, nowadays. They tell people does anyone have a story they'd like to share about the individual and people

27:23 Usually I'm embarrassed to talk cuz I understand that's one of the big fears that people is talking in front of others. So it takes a special person to be able to stand in front of a group of people and talk and that was our our grandfather. He had the experience stalking in front of crowds from way back. He was a real politician kind of guy was part of the Federation. He went to Washington DC to speak over there. Imagine. He was Chris Matic because our brother Anthony is very Chris Matic speaker. I wonder if he got that from our grandfather Sam Brown and then our grandfather Richard Coral

28:07 On my mind and our mom's side was involved with the the pee on the pee on games that part of the tradition. He was what they called the McCoy me and he would be the judge of the of the event to make sure nobody was cheating or called up the sticks or I'm that game is not really familiar with me, but we had you know him on one side with that tradition and papa on the other side as you know, what the other Traditions so

28:40 Pretty traditional qualified are fellows.

28:45 Picked up more on those that those things when we look at the past and like the pillars who established our family and bring it to today.

29:00 I'm very pleased to see some of the leaders that are coming from the youth like like your son who is you know part of the the community and who is out there putting his foot forward and we think he probably might run for Council as well sometime, but I'm encouraged but I'd like to know more about the people who are doing well cuz you only hear the bad stuff, you know, when bad stuff happens at travels really fast, but when it's good stuff, it doesn't travel that fast and I'd like to know about the kids were getting scholarships because when it comes back and you know, like our cousin became a doctor and our kitchen where yo Stan Rodriguez

29:52 I got his Doctorate and now he's a doctor and you know back in my time that was unimaginable that native people could aspire to that level of education and you know, and I hear they're lawyers as well. But my son kind of flirted with the idea of being a lawyer.

30:15 But I'm proud of the use coming up and you got to you got to look at the positive side of the young people. We have around us nowadays. And I think that's something that our circle of Elders organization should get

30:30 Behind and sponsor in the future is

30:35 I don't know offering a scholarship or

30:39 Encouragement, you know how we've talked about how we should talk to the young people. Let them ask questions of us, but I think we should take the initiative because young people again, you know, maybe they're don't want to bother us or they don't want to intrude I think maybe we should take that initial step to go forth in like encourage them and share what happened with us, you know how our lives were in and not how easy they've got it now, but, you know, just give them like when I look back on my ancestors and my relatives and see what kind of lives they lived again, I thank them for getting me to where I am today. I mean I'm here and we could be extinct. You know, we could be extinct are

31:39 Our community our reservation our people if it hadn't been for our grandfather who fought for us in Washington DC and the beat goes on today to maintain our reservation lands and have the freedoms that we have as a Sovereign Nation that sometimes are threatened with politicians who don't know who we are. We're not a big voting Bloc. What are we like 1% of the population of the United States or something like that? It's a drop in the bucket. But you know what we do. We are the people who were here and we need to stay.

32:19 Mia's fire I see I mean you mentioned Facebook and whatnot. But I always see on Facebook, you know, the different people different peoples tribal peoples Across the Nation that are still fighting for their lands or their language or their culture and I think that you know, the internet is good like that so we can get tied into what's going across, you know going on across the country. So I enjoy, you know reading on those stories that they have on Facebook on the cultures is going on in and with what are you here?

32:53 You know, we have a couple of different facets. I think on the reservation we've got those and Mom used to say this before about are the older people used to say this about coming down from cap. Damn. They would say, you know, when somebody would be talking into tribal meeting or something. They would just look at them. Like there are squatters. They weren't they didn't buy this reservation. We bought the reservation. So those people came afterwards they were born afterwards. So, you know, it was kind of a little maybe they didn't know what was going on as as those who purchased a reservation new and then and now we're jump to us and we have people moving back to the reservation because of the housing and me where can you get a house brand new house, you know for a tribal member and pay what they pay to get that that house a live on the reservation and they bring all their outside ideas and where they grew up.

33:53 And when they speak at the tribal meetings, I can kind of see now looking back at those people who purchase or the Elders of purchase the reservation with their thought in mind how the people that weren't from the original reservation might have different ideas than they have that might not be part of the customer tradition got feel that kind of say way in our tribal meetings when people stand up and talk about me me me. I want this guy this and it's just not the way we were brought up. We are brought up for the the culture and you know in we is a community we as a people not I and it kind of hurts a little bit that they you know, and so I think what you're saying about bringing them in and talking to the the elders. I think that would be like a step towards educating maybe the next group of people that come in the next group of tribal members that come in the younger group to have more respect.

34:53 For you know where the try for the for the week and not for the I so think it's a good idea. Well, you mentioned we are reservation.

35:04 I think differs in some manner to other reservations that we're individuals get a specific plot of land and that's their land and they could sell it and it's happened. I believe like an Oklahoma and other places. I don't I'm not sure but in our reservation, it's all Community you get a certain piece of land but it's not really yours. I mean it's it's for you to live on it's for you to do as you will but we can't sell it because this land that we live on is Community Land. It's our land. It's the we and our history has been a we type of History. Everybody always chipped in if there was a death in the family if there was somebody who needed something as if a woman lost her husband back in the day, you know, and there was a younger younger brother from that husband that brother would marry the woman to take care of that part of his family.

36:04 Raise his brothers kids. It was a weak immunity. You took care of the people that were living in the community and in and that's what I think we need to instill. Is it still we you know, it's not you it's not I it's the Wii if you want to be on the reservation that kind of concept has to

36:28 Overcome the idea that you could do anything you want, you know, it's like a family, you know, if you're part of the family you got to do what's good for the family sometimes as opposed to what you need to have done right and wrong family here all of us our family and just recently with all the deaths we've had on the reservations or everyone's coming together to help out. I just I mean the death is hard and it's sad and it but it also brings people together and I hopefully that these deaths will be something that will

37:06 Be good for us that will you know how people realized that in the time of need you need your family you need your community. So I'm you know, something good will come out of it is of what I'm saying. So I'm hopeful that that will happen even though we have such sadness.

37:26 You what else? Would you like to see my sister?

37:29 I'd like to thank you for inviting me to talk with you today. Cuz I didn't think I really wanted to do this. But memories are nice and warm in my mind to bring back as we chatted. And again, I see the people Flash before me I even have

37:49 The sensation of going to church when we had tile floors and a wood stove in the church and it was all cold and we had tried to sit as close to the heater as possible in the church. And I remember that we still have the same church, but now it's got Carpeting and it's got central heat and it's a comfortable place to be but I mean you had to be a real committed Catholic in order to sit in the church at when it was freezing outside cuz it was just as freezing inside and speaking about Cole remember when we lay in bed and

38:27 And weak again. We had no central heat and we had blankets and blankets on top of the bed and we'd go blow-for-blow all that. What is it? Like condensation? What do you call it? Like frost or whatever out of our miles into the air was so cold in our bedroom and not want to get up mama said time to get ready for school. Yeah, maybe that's why I only took bath once a week. I was gold. I came because and sister encouraged me to our godmother who is 94 I believe in she if she felt it was important. I'm sure she came and talked as well. Oh, yeah. I think she's going to talk. So I think you know if she felt it was important. That's how we learned. It's you know, she passed that down two ports to us and we pass it down at that point. So as they say, you know, pass it on or

39:22 Losing some glad that we came you're right and thank you as well my sissy. Love you. I love you more. But yeah.