Rasheeda Ali and Pauline Johnson

00:02 My name is Pauline. I Johnson and I am 68 years old and tomorrow. I will be 69 years old. Today's date Sunday, October 17th, 2021 location, Columbus. Georgia name of the interview partner. Rasheda, Ali relationship to partner friend and classmate but not necessary to class Maple. We went to the same high school and we graduated high school and I'm rashidah Ali, 74 years old. I this is Sunday October 17th 2021 in Columbus, Georgia. My interview partner is Miss Pauline. I Johnson class of 1970. Will you make Spencer high school and a personal personal friend of mine?

00:54 Hey Rasheeda, please tell me how you became to fall in love with the piano as a child. Oh, you know that about me. All right, so when my, when I was a little girl, my mom bought me this little Furniture looking piano like the one that's at my house now, but it was a little small keyboard. I was probably six years old. I kept the piano till I was 18 years old and I would just Tinker on it with one finger at a time. Yeah. I wanted to learn how to play the piano. That little one made me go to everybody's house that had a piano where I grew up. If they had a piano, I had to learn how to play it and I remember one lady, I go to her house. Mystery anime her, don't recall her name. Okay.

01:45 This Johnny met with allow me to play her piano, but I would have to go see mr. Anime. Could I please play your piano today. Should tell me? Yeah, baby, but come back. When the edge of night goes on the edge of night. As you know, for people that don't know. That was a TV, what they call it soap, opera the real popular soap opera of the sixties and at 3:30. I will come on at 4. It would be off. I'll be right back on their doorstep, Miss trying to make it as your nights. Going out that I play a piano anybody that had a piano in my neighborhood and the projects where I grew up, Booker T, Washington. I was at their door. Can I play a piano, please? Sorry. I just fell in love with it until this day. I have a piano fetish. If I see a piano, I have to play it. And I have one at home. It just doesn't matter. There's one in the library where we recording from now if Sylvie will open that door, I go in there.

02:45 Late today, but that I just love piano age. So now now I know that you graduated in 1966 from where you met Spencer High School. I mean, I keep saying 66 or I'll be saying 66 or time but you graduated 1960. 550 from Spencer High School. What did you do when you graduated from Spencer high school after you graduated, I mean, what did you do after graduation? I went to Tuskegee Institute. That was the name of it back then. Over in Alabama, Tuskegee, Alabama for a couple years. I made you the English, but I had this music thing in my first orientation. The first day of school, we got together and did it entertainment. Show the new freshmen coming on board. I sat there and played the piano and have some girls from Phenix City Cat. Call their names. We talkin 55 years ago.

03:45 But we've had a little group and they've song Their song. I was the piano player, but after its high school, I attended Tuskegee and I didn't graduate but I did go for a couple years and then I tried to go into the military. I passed all the tests after I left Tuskegee and I was like, okay, this isn't worth it because I was overweight, are you not pass? All boo paper test and the physical, but I was overweight. When they put me on the scales for the air force, that was so ready to go into the military. The recruiter said, look, don't be downhearted, just go and maybe try to go into the Navy. Well, I was so high-strung. I did not pass the Navy, test.

04:36 So the next thing, my brother who is in the Army said, no. Don't go in the army and my mom was like, what what what am I? I had a girlfriend whose mother wanted us to go to New York. So my best friend, then was an mclester and her mother was Miss, Anna Lewis and his analyst said, you girls need to get out of Columbus and just go up North and that's what I did. I went to New York City and stay for 11 years. I started a radio career. They are worked at the bank. So I got a chance to see ticker-tape parades when the astronauts landed on the moon. I actually saw the word that I was there. The year, the Mets won the World Series, that was another ticket a parade for that but that happened at a time when the garbage people were on strike, if you know what the ticker tape parade is. That's where these tall buildings. Got people throwing confetti out the window.

05:36 All of it lands on the ground and my memory is all of his paper being on the ground and the garbage people on strike. From one ticket, a parade to another and I that does something sticks in my mind. But New York for about 11 years, then I came back home to Columbus Georgia. And that's another part of the story, you know, something Rasheeda. If I hadn't, if I wasn't listening to what you saying about you joining the military. I never somebody said rashidun try to get in the middle. So I would say yes, I did. I I mean, I really wanted to go to the military. We just thought that that was a good thing that I wasn't thinking College, really? But I did. I had a scholarship to Tuskegee and I went over there, but I didn't really want to go to Tuskegee. Tell me what was your scholarship and I had an English. I was an English major.

06:36 I had a book scholarship in my tuition. I graduated from high school number 21 in my class out of about 200 students. So I worked in the office in high school. I was got on the microphone in high school and but you young kids, you know, and I'm thinking, this is what I want to do, but the older people had their thing in mind what I should do. And then when I went to college, I wanted to major in music but I was guided to major in English education. I was supposed to become a teacher. Okay, then I was like, nah, I don't think I want to teach, but they tell me now, I should have been a teacher because I'm very much into teaching people things. But that was, that was basically what went on with me out of high school.

07:30 So let me piggyback on what you just said. When you came back home. Just a what kind of work did you pursue? Oh, you're not going to believe it when I got back home to Columbus, Georgia.

07:43 I went through the Urban League of Greater Columbus to get my jobs Mister, Jesse Taylor was the director of the Urban League member him, and his wife was Miss Marietta Marietta Taylor, the mr. Taylor met me, and I have been in New York City. I started radio in New York. That's where it started. And when I got back to Columbus and by the way, in New York, I work for wor, which was an RKO station, and I just have so many memories of my radio career in New York, but when I got back home, I went to mr. Taylor I would actually went to the Urban League. They had an Employment Division and they would look for jobs for different people in the city. So, I'm one of my first jobs. I got believe it or not was the first woman of color, a African-American or negro you. Nate you use the word you want to use the first one to work in the Burger King at Ministry.

08:43 Native office under mr. Marvin Schuster in Columbus, Georgia, so I work there for a while and then that was kind of rough. That was rough in the 70s. You got to remember, we just coming out of the Civil Rights Movement was going on. First black, to do this. Of course some Caucasian people didn't like that, you know, in the girls that I had to work with some, we're not happy with that. While one. White girl pick me up everyday, make sure I got to work some of the others in the office were really upset that I was working in that office. So I know that I held on long as I could and then I found that I had an opportunity to start working for Sanford Bishop.

09:34 I was his executive secretary. He had a law firm Congressman bitching. Now. That's right. So also a New York. One of the jobs I had was with legal services and the New York. I actually became vice president of the Union. So what did you do and legal services? I was secretary. Cuz I was on the, you know, the side with the secretary is typing up forms for going to files things at the court of that way. And that's a another memory man. The people that I work with, I actually work with Tupac, you know, the two pockets I work with his mother. After I just looked at the movie on TV, show me all. Well, if they do look at it, a fanny was my friend. I worked in at legal services with Afeni Shakur, when Tupac

10:34 I was only two years old but you know, she was pregnant with Tupac in prison. Yes, but he was 2 years old by the time she got to work for a legal services and that, that offer had two divisions landlord and tenant Division and upstairs Family Court related. That's okay. Why did he become so outspoken? Like she was a into

11:05 This military regime type of thing, black tiles. And how did she get like that? Well in New York, the movie shows she was just out there smoking with just out there with them. Okay, so maybe the Afeni that I met Alice was her name? In fact, didn't know it at the time but when I was in New York, we lived on the same street as so when I and I didn't know that she worked at Legal Services when I was there. I didn't realize who why we didn't know who Tupac was going to be, when he was 2 years old, but what she had become was a black militant. She was militant young girl, out of high school, spoke her mind. She was one of the New York 7. They held some building hostage for a while. So she's like, yeah. She just was militant. Some people worried. It was easy for them to just stand.

12:05 Are ground and speak up for their people. While there was some who are afraid to speak up. She was not one of those that was afraid. So she was you use the right word military. She was very militant. She was that way, but that was a friendship. And when I became pregnant, that's when we really became friends. I got pregnant in New York City and I was ashamed. I was pregnant out of wedlock. I knew my mama is going to kill me cuz if she didn't want me to go to New York to begin with. But when I got there and I started living the life and being around different people. And just a young next to 18, 19 year old girl and New York City. I got a job and and that's another story. How do you get jobs in New York City back in the 70s, he go through an agency.

13:01 And I went to an agency and got a job at Legal Services.

13:07 And ended up working with Tupac's mama. So since you knew Tupac's mama and her name was Alice and you said she changed her name to Afeni Shakur. She was so funny. When I m I I found out how and why did you change your name from Cheryl Jackson to Rasheda Ali. That's right, and we didn't say that in the beginning but I am formally Cheryl Jackson back in 1973 cuz I have been I went to New York in 68 and 1968. I moved to New York. So it 19 by 73. I had met a young man who was a Muslim. He studied Islam and I became a student of Islam closest. Well and as a Muslim

14:00 She didn't know that I was studying and I didn't know that what they meant for her name to be a fanny. I thought that was her to her name and y'all was just working together. We work together still, right? And unless I became pregnant and I was keeping it a secret. Okay. She looked at me one day and she told me she's your pregnant. Do you need to go to the doctor? And I was like, I don't want to see a doctor. I was just something. I know she says you got to have prenatal care. She took me through all of that and that's what I don't want to mail doctor. I don't want to have nothing to do and she said, well you got to have a doctor. This is my doctor is a female. So I'm going to take you to my doctor because you got to have prenatal care and that began our friendship and we worked together for another three years before. I left New York and came back home to Columbus Georgia, but changing my name was due to the

15:01 Involvement that I had with studying Islam. Once I studied Islam and learn different things. I decided that I would profess Islam as my way of life and doing that. I was told that I would receive a holy name and I was like what who's going to give me that name and then no one could tell me who is going to give me the name but in studying I also learn how to read and write Arabic and I started falling in love with certain words and wanted to write the words that were easy to write Arabic is written from right to left instead of left to right and I learn how to write that. I was like, I had done it before and I got to this word. That was our Rashid.

15:55 And I could write it and then I love the meaning of Rashi Wright Jr. She does. But you said that way because America and the English language makes you see it that way, but that way has nothing to do with it. My name being Rasheeda. Okay, you just so much and studying and getting to understand what holy names are the names that God is known by the, it all comes from that. But by my falling in love with the word Rashid call Rashid and I knew the meaning of it which has to do which means the guide to the right path. I saw it on a poster and I loved it and then I could write it and I just put like wow, it's so easy. I went to an event with another Muslim sister here in Columbus, Georgia.

16:56 And all the people that met me wanted to know what, what's your name? And I had told this sister about how I felt in love with the name Rashid and how I could ride it. And where I first saw it. She told me that should be your name. Okay, so my name became Rasheeda, can you call that sister's name? Who is it? Somebody that this was over 45 years ago. I cannot remember the sister's name. I don't remember. How do you have a run up on or not? Recently? Not recently. I don't it's just like a vague foggy memory, but that's how I got the name. Rashida Ali and Ali came because my son's father, when I became pregnant, his he was Muslim. He introduced me to Islam and I ended up taking his name because I thought I'd needed to we were married and

17:52 It's just a different way of life. In America. You take your husband's name because that's the American way. But in Islam you take a family name if you want, but your name could be one thing if you want it. And your husband name can be something else but to keep families together. I think it's a family name, like in America. Yeah, so or America the like the Middle East cuz that country was doing this thing. Probably before America was even thought of but we get in America and we learned to do what other people do Americans do. Yeah, we get American eyes, but that's how I got the name. Rashida. Not at you getting famous and everything as my friend one day. Let's get together. Go to New York City or go somewhere wherever Afeni Shakur is.

18:50 And meet her. Well, if Amy has passed away. Yes. She passed away. If I knew years ago, a few years ago, but let me tell you, part of that story and I thought I saw her. Only one of those shows with big is Mom, not recently not resolving. That's okay. So, I phani left New York. Like I left New York, Tupac became a multi star. I mean, everybody knows Tupac and his real name is Tupac, amaru, Shakur. So we left and went, our different ways. They ended up in Atlanta. There is a Tupac amaru Museum in Atlanta. How you serious? And I was like, how can I get in touch with the fanny? Once I heard about the museum? I just called the museum and I expressed to the person, the curator over the museum that I was a friend of Afeni Shakur's and I

19:50 I want her to know that I had reached out to call her and I said all you just need to do is tell her that says, Cheryl Jackson, little girl from down south had reached out. I got a phone call back from her and we do it. Yeah, we talked. I was about to try to get her to come here for a young people's event. Do you remember what year that was? All of this was gosh to see this had to be anywhere around 2015 knows not 2015 2500 b2005 maybe two thousand three, but I left New York and 1976. So for twenty years almost I did not talk to her.

20:40 But they remember me. Do you remember me?

20:49 How long have you had the speaking voice? This voice this mellow voice? Oh, wow. Okay, so I was this little girl that grew up in Booker T Washington Apartments in Columbus, Georgia. I went to school like all the other kids but I always had a soft voice. I've just had a soft voice.

21:11 When I got to the junior high, there was a teacher named Miss hangs. Miss hangs. I can't call her first name, but she immediately started teaching us to articulate enunciate. Okay, and as a Junior High kid, I'm talking the way I normally would talk but I used to talk real slow down South, we slow. We dragged, you know, by the time I got the high school, I ran into Miss Rose, a child and Miss Nathan 11 year was Miss Nathan, but my senior year was Rosa child's and it was all about conjugating verbs, speak incorrect English, and perfecting it, you know that I just perfect perfected the English language and it was already a soft voice. My brother-in-law who had moved out to California with, come back home and say look, I just need you to talk a little faster. You sound.

22:11 So good just talk faster. And here's the thing about that. I can say the same thing, Sunday, October 17th 2021.

22:23 It sounds like I know the date but it sounds like I'm not sure is that. But if I say today is Sunday, October 17th, 2020? What I sound like? I know exactly what I'm talking about. So that's how the voice came about and in my radio career, talkin in a Mike all the time. I just had to know how to project. How to step back if I was going to get louder and then how to get clothes and bring it down and just correct English and then I learned poetry. I love. Reciting it. And I love telling my black history. So I was able to utilize the voice and keep it, keep it where it is. So which one of your teachers noticed that you had this voice to be an announcer is Spencer. High School. Miss Miss Ingersoll. Miss Ernestine. Mack was our counselor, but I was able to get a position.

23:23 As a student, at the helper in the office, and in working in the office, in my 11th grade year, I was able to get on the PA system and make the announcements like attention. There will be a pep rally at noon are all seniors and juniors report to the auditorium and they found that I could, I could do that. But let me tell you about that. I'm a brown skin woman and back. In those days skin color within the black race, was it? I think it was something that had to be acknowledged certain girls who may have been able to do certain things better than other girls. If they were not of certain complexion. They couldn't even go out for it, couldn't try out for it. So, where I had this, great boys, had a great memory. I am 74 now, but I can remember,

24:23 Poem that I've never seen in writing from the third grade. I can I can recite The Raven by Edgar Allan Poe right now and I don't read it very often. I can I remember another by Sam Walter false and I just I don't know it just someone heard it and said, okay you you're on the PA system you make the announcement and that led to me doing it on a regular basis. And when I went to college at Tuskegee, I became a switchboard operator. Yep. I was a switchboard operator. And when I moved to New York City, I ended up going to another employment agency that actually sent me to a radio station.

25:12 And all and all of that came about because I learn how to speak English. Well, that's it and Miss Rose. A child's eye tribute to really staying on top of me about those birds and making it sound as good as I could, possibly make it sound. And I got to speak at my graduation actually.

25:36 Can I ask you another question? Yes, ma'am. Do you remember?

25:42 When we met or how we met.

25:46 Lee mad in 2015.

25:50 We met in. Was it before 2015 maybe 2014?

25:56 What happened? We were getting ready to something about our school. We met sooner would tell me cuz I'm not remember if you don't remember. I remember it was at a 66 Christmas party Nelson. Mandela had just got out of prison. Remember, and it was what we was at the training center. You was walking around with this this thing, but we are about to sign into tagged. It got taken back to Africa. OK. Let me tell you what. That was that do deer? Nelson Mandela died. I think was more like, 2013, 2012, 2013,

26:33 What happened was I was it had to be around 2012 or 2013 because I was on the board of directors. What happened there. I was on the board of directors at the Liberty Theater. Number 10 K. So I know it was 2012, 2013, but Nelson Nelson Mandela had passed away. Is that why you was walking around with? Okay. I have been told by Brother, Ibrahim, luqman, who is formerly Charlie? Porter from Columbus, Georgia. We grew up together. If you graduated from the 65 class, he went to Washington DC and went to Howard University out of high school.

27:19 We did not know that we both were going to become Muslims. But in later years, we found that we were both Muslims, Abraham being in DC was real. Good friends with the ambassador to South Africa. And when Nelson Mandela passed away, Ibrahim called and said, Rashida, this is what you can do.

27:42 Make a book of condolences to the Nelson Mandela family and he said I would hand-deliver it to the ambassador of South Africa and he would give it to the family. I said, how am I going to make a book of condolences and he's so you'll come up with something. So I bought a binder and some gold paper issues and I walked around the city and got people to sign and wish the family will and express their condolences. What you where I met. You was out, came into that luncheon that you were a good Christmas. Has someone from the class of 1966 out of Spencer. High heading vitamin think it was Linda, Linda Mays Linda, Mays had asked me to come by and let people in the 66 class. Sign the book.

28:38 And that's, that's where I met you. You know what I was doing. I didn't know what you were doing at that time. If you would, you know, you were doing it, then. Yes. I did. Let me make a presentation and you came in there.

28:55 This is rashidah Ali and they told us what you was doing. And I said, can I do what you said yesterday? But thank you for reminding me of how we met cuz I had to slip my memory. I want to change the subject a little bit. What would you like to say to encourage the use of today? Oh, my goodness. Well, first of all, I want to say that. I'm an elder. I'm a grandma. I'm a mom, my grandchildren are young 14 and 15 the times that we're living in right now, really crucial. And, and just sad and, and really dangerous and bad. I would tell them, first of all, stay in school. Please stay in school. I would tell them to

29:47 Try to be respectful of their Elders, more than they have been, don't lose that.

29:55 Honor your mother and your father. I will remind them a lot of all of that and just tell him to stay in school. Don't forget to say, please. And thank you, please. And thank you. Yes, ma'am. No, ma'am. Yes or no, sir. I would just encourage them to be a good manners and we need to go back to that. That's, that is so crucial right now that yet. Yeah. I know that's that kind of talk is never going to work and it just sucks because of the mental. They don't think and they don't know that they need to be more respectful and it's been accepted. It's almost like Elders have gotten where they are afraid of the young people, but I'm not, but God did not give us a spirit of fear. And so, whenever I run into the young kids, I'll go straight to their level. I don't expect them to come to mine.

30:55 They have no clue, but I know how it is to be young. I remember and I just talked to them like they're human. Like they are real people but they are going down a bad path and they just need to understand that. This is not a good way, but just in Courage meant to to be respectful of their elders and stay in school and you know, what, what I would encourage the use of today and I just got to add on to. This is don't give up on your own their dreams, love themselves and the love God. Yes, very good. Well, we might have to just start something so we can talk to young people and put that message out there to them cuz I don't see it being out there in the open not being done at all. Yeah. I mean, I'll I'll politicians, you know the mail this year of the police chief. They trying to do a little something with crying but

31:53 It don't look like it. Don't seem to be working. Yeah. Well, the other thing about it right now, and my mom and talked about it when I was in Columbus, Georgia worldwide and and Nationwide worldwide. We're lived. We're living in the last days according to Christian doctrine and and Lil Fizz. So the Bible Prophecies of the last days tells us what's going on today. They wrote about it years and years and years, and years ago. So, if these prophecies have been written, that means that these things are coming to pass. And when we look about, look at what's going on in the world today, these things are coming to pass. We have children against parents. We have children against each other. We have diseases that have no names, and no cures. He don't know what season is that? Exactly? And so this is prophesized in the Bible. So we just need to get these children Wild.

32:53 3 on right now in case these are the last days to get right, get back, right? Honor your mother and your father so your days can be longer and get on that track again. I don't know if they're there but I say we are in the Bible prophecies and this is why it is so bad. You know. Yep. So we are just going to keep on doing the best that we can do in in raising our children and hope that we don't lose them and pray for them. Yes.

33:31 Well, I tell you, this is been real good. I Pauline. I can't. Thank you enough for being a part of this story Corps, and being my partner, and we chatting and talking about things with each other. Learn a little bit about you, too. So thank you again. It's my pleasure Rasheeda. And my name is calling you at Johnson. All right, that's right. Thank you.