Robert Free and Stephen Crane

00:00 Turn red. So she so we are we are gone so about if you would go ahead and start. Yes. My name is Robert L free. I'm 76 years old. I live in Nacogdoches County, Texas.

00:19 I'm Steve Crane and I live in Longview Texas set up 69 will be 70 next month. And this is part of the small of one small step program.

00:37 Write this is and your guys.

00:47 Do I read that and then asked if there's anything he would like to ask you about it specifically?

00:57 I started my full-time working life while in college join the Navy upon receiving a degree to avoid being drafted during the Vietnam era had worked in one industry All My Life currently self-employed my wife and family have lived and worked on her livestock farm for the last 43 years. I've lived in five different cities in Texas plus being imported in California while in the Navy.

01:28 In the past. I've had close affiliation with the Republican Party my church and local service organizations.

01:43 Yes, I just asked Bob some questions or okay, so so Bob a lot of my a lot of friends of mine had served in the Navy. I'd like to know whether you were actually stationed in Vietnam during that time.

02:02 I had one deployment right after I finished training but the ship that I was assigned to was in Dry Dock the first time I ever saw it and

02:22 Weight were pulled out of dry dock early.

02:27 So that our captain could be relieved in the war zone and we rushed across the Pacific in time for him to have his change of command and we were on a 9 month deployment just off the DMC and in Vietnam.

02:50 I also was curious about you know your education. What was your degree? And I thought it was interesting that you went into Farm in. So I'll just kind of curious about that started college with the goal of being a music Major and quickly found out that I had started that program many years to light and switched to a business major and my degree was in business. I have worked in the printing industry from the time I was

03:38 19

03:40 And I'm still in that industry.

03:48 Thank you.

03:53 I'm a high-school graduate with some college who has been married over thirty years by with one child self-employed for the past fat past seven years that currently semi-retired very active in the community in the past. And is he a man lived in a common for a few years during the Progressive Community organization with a focus on low-income families. Are we developing relationships with people of color and other organizations very active in politics and Union activities and I came to religion like life.

04:29 I was really interested in your association with a communist. What was that shortly after I left high school? And you know, I would have gone to a semester of college and that just didn't work out for me. So there was a group of people in Arkansas fall places and it was called simply the group ended it was in very interesting group of people. They were actually entertainers and they had like a dinner theater up on Greers Ferry Lake and we all worked and lived together and we pulled our money and supported each other. There were wasn't the remote garage. There was no alcohol it was you know, there was an Eastern religion focus with a real quest for now.

05:29 Elgin understanding of of the world around us and our place in it. So there was a lot of self-reflection and an opportunity to explore different religious beliefs and traditions, but there was it was a very it was it wasn't to call me in in the sets were you think about hippies? It was more of a business-oriented type of communist people were serious about you know, taking on responsibilities and and making sure that you know, the toilet was fixed and cleaned or dinner was cooked and kitchen play that sort of thing and people have jobs and we are supported each other.

06:14 That sounds like a very broadening experience and an opportunity to learn as much more about yourself as as others even that yes, that is absolutely the case.

06:30 Sounds like a wonderful experience. Well, it was you know, there was a point when it got a little old and it was obviously not the place for me, but that was okay. I left my brother and sister remained in it for her for a few more years my brother for quite a few years after that and that communist still in existence today in Little Rock Arkansas. Wow. That's that's that's something I've learned. I didn't know that it was something that long-lived.

07:10 Yeah, it's pretty amazing. And I think a lot of that had to do with the fact that it was.

07:18 Well that there was some pretty strict rules in the sense of you know that you have to do to contribute there was an expectation and the people were extremely hard-working very very creative. And I mean in terms of problem solving and it taking on tasks that they may not know how to do how to do them. If they were really a very very talented group of people, you know.

07:57 Physics

08:02 It sounds like my experience in the Navy in a lot of ways, you know, when you take a little and lever that they only thing they've ever experienced is an outboard motor and a boat and then you put them on aboard an aircraft carrier that steam powered and you find out your responsibilities there and it's definitely learning as you go.

08:30 And you have to get along with I'm assuming you know that you were you were thrust into a situation where you were around people from different parts of the country different brat backgrounds and as learning a lot that way as well. Absolutely and the

08:48 The bonds that you perform with the people that you work with that that was a tremendous experience for me. Even after this length of time. There's at least one person that I started with that we still maintain communication. Oh, that's wonderful. People are the best part of life suck.

09:21 Really it is about the relationships we have with family and in our friends and in the community, you're right. I wanted to ask you what was what was what was your rank in the Navy and and that what did you do on the ship?

09:38 I am I went to officers candidate school after college and at the same time the draft board was trying to draft me if he's going to let you know at that point. They were drafting anybody that could maintain a body temperature and but I want to board the ship is the main engines officer and ultimately went into the deck and weapons department and my

10:17 I would have made a second deployment. But at the time we were fixing to deploy some neighbors of ours my wife and I were living in in California there when we came back after the first deployment.

10:36 And our next door neighbors have been after us to go to their cabin and Big Bear and go skiing.

10:44 And as a result of that weekend ski trip I ended up in the hospital for the next 9 months and miss that deployment with a broken leg pouch. Yeah, and they

11:02 I have served on the naval base in a cast on the courts-martial on the boards for the justice courts there on the banks.

11:22 I bet that was an interesting experience. It was indeed that other thing that was really interesting and it's kind of a side when I first went aboard the ship that had the fluoride on our captain.

11:42 Was

11:45 He was a unique individual the ad of the morale is worth the ship was terrible.

11:53 And the executive officer was Anna of the same cloth.

12:01 But after we got a new captain our new captain was named captain pain.

12:09 And he was a prince of an individual.

12:14 And a short time after that we got a new executive officer aboard ship.

12:21 His name was commander shock.

12:25 So we had leadership of shock and pain and they were both delightful individuals. They were terrific morale improves a great deal and we had a very very nice relationship.

12:45 Well, I wanted to share with you even though I did not time and pretend you're a few years older than I am. So you you were the heat of of the draft. I remember going to the draft board. I was moved from Arkansas to California and they told me to come in the two to the where they were doing. Did you have to go through the draft physical and go through all that? And so there I was in a room with probably two hundred guys, and we were all told to strip naked in bed. Over and all that kind of stuff and then we met was talking about and I think it was at that time that I decide that you know what this is getting very very real and I needed to kind of go to college here. So I started

13:41 You know accepted me from from being drafted and then I got a high lottery number win the lottery can.

13:52 Yeah, that Lottery came long after you and me and so I just want to let you know at that time Bob, you know, the country was in a very strange place kind of the same way. It is now but different people really look down on people who served in the military back then because we, you know, the country really didn't need to be in that war from the very beginning, but that wasn't anybody's fault who volunteered to serve so I just want to say I'm sorry and thank you for your service, Thank you. It was not not a bad time for me.

14:36 They have I felt for the folks that came home after I did. They they receive more of the heat of that public sentiment than I did.

14:50 That you're absolutely right. We we should have never been there in the first place and

15:01 Bears

15:03 There are several things that our country is done that we with twenty-twenty hindsight wasn't a real good idea at the time. I think I think as a nation we we we hold our lead expectations we have for our leaders or are quite high and so we hold them to a different standard sometimes 9, but they're all so cute and when we work in concert with with one another I think we're less likely to make mistakes. If we were talking with one another if we were listening to one another and trying to develop consensus. Exactly. And you know, I'm not inside. I think we've kind of gotten away from that of moss.

15:57 You're exactly right.

16:01 And one of the key points and that is listening to the other person spend more time listening than trying to formulate a rebuttal to what someone is saying.

16:18 Yeah, and you know, I think part of that conversation Bob and I kind of get this from you just in talking to you is humility is an important value to have because it's possible that I might not be right. I've been in that position more than one learning experience. Well, it's like in my first job in the Navy.

16:49 I had to chief petty officers in my division and

16:58 I had certainly known that the chief petty officer is one of the higher enlisted ranks.

17:09 And I asked both of them into my office and told him I said Neil. My attitude is my job is to keep the people above me off of your back and your job is to get the man to do the work right and keep those same people off of my back and I'm going to help you in any way. I possibly can but teach me what I need to know and we we had a wonderful working relationship one of my best friends on the ship was the chief petty officer.

17:51 Got in trouble over that it's timer to but that I won't ask how

17:58 Well, like I said our first executive officer was a rather narrow-minded individual races in the port in issue today. It's the exhibits at the Forefront of of a lot of what's going on and where the regardless of where you stand on that particular issue kind of curious when you were in the Navy on that small enclosed environment on that ship for such a long. Of time where there where there are people of color on the ship and what were the relationships like back then and was there some getting used to each other.

18:38 There were very few different races. One of my first class Petty officers was Latino. He was from from Texas and I always get it in.

18:58 May be politically incorrect at this time, but I asked him I said which side of the Rio Grande were you really from and then he would tell me he was from El Paso, but he was a delightful individual hard-working. I recommended him for a chief petty officer and he was going to stay in the Navy as a career.

19:27 That I know of other ships that were deployed that had some rather intense racial issues among the crew and

19:42 You know that was dumais deplorable.

19:46 But it did happen at that time.

19:51 So one of my earliest memories of being politically active was when I was arguing with a friend of mine coming home from school in the sixth grade and it was it was during the when John F Kennedy was elected president. So, you know, I was arguing for John F Kennedy and you know, my memory is quite what it used to be. But if I remember correctly and that one Barry Goldwater Apartments just asked for President John F. Kennedy had a profound impact call Army and a

20:42 Oh, you know in my my political views it was a time when you know, we got the space program up and running and we put people into space and you know, there was a lot of civil unrest at the time there was some legislation that was passed that was meant to be more inclusive of in in allowing people to the opportunity to to gain the American dream. So that for me kind of just stuck with me from the get-go and I was kind of curious what your first foray into politics was and and

21:27 My first exposure to to politics was when I would lay in bed at night. I was possibly in high school.

21:43 But I would listen to speeches that Lyndon Johnson would get and I thoroughly I was captivated by him as a speaker.

21:56 And

22:00 You know that.

22:03 He he seemed to be.

22:07 Has later president at the time I listen to him. It was a Senator, but when he became president.

22:17 He exhibited a heart compassion.

22:24 And I admire him for

22:30 Where is approach to things once he became committed to a college and particularly the Improvement of the racial issues that that to me was was significant in course, I do remember the Kennedy years that the Camelot years right and I miss them terribly so far we both love Red River radio over here and the other is the week out of wish for those days again. Yeah, I'm with you on that and that was a time when you know, where were the Republican and Democratic party were not the same as they are today that they're there were, you know, I remember for example Lowell weicker.

23:30 I'm used to it anyway, but he was considered, you know, a moderate and actually live when he was fiscally conservative, but socially and so there was a time when I think people in put those positions were able to

23:54 Come together on really important issues and and really get sometimes.

24:00 Absolutely. They they had at that time. The word compromise was was not a was not foul language and

24:15 You know my first personal involvement in politics was when I moved to Nacogdoches County in 1977 Nacogdoches County was predominantly Democratic. The Democratic party was almost like a closed Club regarding, you know, particularly newcomers with a great deal of Suspicion and one of the mentors that I had in the county before I moved back and started my business turned out to be the chairman of the local the County Republican Party.

25:07 Andy and I were were friends he was my accountant and I became involved in the Republican Party politics greatly involved in a couple of State conventions ended up recruiting a candidate for a local office here ended up as his campaign manager and we won the Bloomin election why he was elected and

25:43 Shortly after that

25:46 They attitude of the Republican Party.

25:50 Changed enormously in my mind.

25:55 All right to the point like you say that social issues became more important than physical issues.

26:05 And it no longer represented the beliefs that I had brought in originally.

26:13 And that's when I just dissociated with the Republican Party. Wow. So, you know, when I first moved to East Texas was the 1980 at that point in time of Gregg County was very much like Nacogdoches. Can they were you know, just that the the Democratic they had one of Republican judge who I didn't know the time and in later when I got into the church now, I'm in currently she was in that church and got to know him. It's very very well. We were the best friend. I love him dearly. He passed away a couple years ago and I miss him terribly anyway, so when I came I had some friends who had invited me out and have that offered me a job. And so I started working out here and I was hanging out with them and the husband

27:13 Who's going to run for office? As JP is the Republican? That's the only campaign Republican seat back then and he was quite the character.

27:34 But it's funny. My wife in particular is the precinct chairman for the Democratic party. We part of the county where we live. It's it's it's Rural and we all pretty much know each other and I have course. We've been there now for 42 years, but

28:08 They

28:10 People that used to

28:13 Give us sour looks when we were holding the like a Republican primary and the Democrats would be on the other side of the all in their room with the Democratic party and everybody would go into the Democratic primary and vote and

28:37 There's not a soul that we know that will admit to having done that now because they go has reversed completely. Yes it has and she she works as an election judge for most all of the elections and I help with that is much, you know as as the law allows, but the way we've been politically active first one side and then the other for the last probably 20 years or even if it's just voting, you know, it's just so many people are so feel so disenfranchised like they're both doesn't count and you know you and I both know having been around awhile.

29:37 I'll just how important each and every boat it and you know that that George shrubs Bush election was won by just a just a hair based on a few boats out of Florida decided by the Supreme Court. So, you know that I'm going issue. I don't know.

30:03 How we address I know how we change that one thing that concerns me greatly is that you know, the young people need to be

30:15 Heavily encouraged to number one be informed and number to participate in the process and the thing that really concerns me at this point in time.

30:30 Is the

30:33 The dependence of that age group on social media and the stuff that they can dig up on the internet and so much of it is simply not true. They don't verify facts or or Beth information that they gave I have a daughter that is

31:05 45 years old

31:08 And doesn't subscribe to the newspaper rarely ever looks at Network news and I forced NPR on her several times when she would visit but she seems to be totally impressed let you know what she gets off of Bass Book things like that and that to me is terribly disturbing well, and yes, that's absolutely correct me to there is so much, you know the world

31:49 I mean, you know for the younger generation to kind of understand what what it was like when we were growing up but mean, I don't know about you Bob, but you know, we were one of the first families on the Block to have a TV or yes. I remember that a Banda.

32:08 I mean in and you know phones were party lines.

32:13 You know, I'll wait till somebody got off the phone before you could use the phone up to lately. The first one that way the first party-line we had was in a stax's back to my grandmother out in West Texas when we live there my grandmother worked for the telephone company and if I would be at her house if I picked up the telephone.

32:44 I would hear my grandmother's voice from the telephone office saying what do you want because a light would come on on the switchboard and she had plugged in and you didn't have a doll on the thing. You know, you just picked up the phone in the operator at you. They would dial your calls.

33:05 So I see where we only have about 10 minutes in one Bob wanted you to ask me could you briefly describe in your own words your personal political views? So I'll just you know, I'm a very liberal in my political views and they're shaped a lot by my mom who raised me cuz we were part of a single-family. My dad was out of the picture for the most part and she was very compassionate loving person and was very involved in the community where we live including helping organize some garbage workers most of whom were African-American because of the working conditions that they had and she was the best one was just couldn't believe that the city one do more and she was also an environmentalist and I remember in when I was growing up.

34:05 Living in Fort Smith, Arkansas. She made it a point to take us to black churches in to later the point that we would visit with black families and because she did what she understood what it was understood that racism was an issue back then and so that's always been a very very had a very profound impact on me and my politics and you know, I feel like that, you know while I get frustrated with the Democrats in some ways, you know, I believe that they hold in closer to my value system about caring for others providing brothers, and I don't mean from you know, the government make the decisions about you know, what you do, but just giving people the opportunity for our hands up like the civil rights legislation that can't do the Voting Rights Act, which was trying to correct some of the problems of that would not allow.

35:05 Are African Americans to vote or do you even be elected to office? And so

35:13 And let you know so I can let you know. I think we get we get saddled with this tax-and-spend you no label and you know it and I know it might my response to that is well, you know, we got to have taxes to function number one. So taxes are not a good thing number to government is not a bad thing. And you know, this is a republican with a democratic process and people have to be involved to keep government in check and that's the way you do it by exercising your right to vote and end up, you know, as long as

35:54 As long as the money is being spent responsibly and is being used to provide for the needs of of the folks who need it than that. I don't see any problem. I know that's an overgeneralization and there's a lot more to it, but that's basically my views.

36:14 Well, I

36:17 My values

36:20 Could be summed up in a fairly recent event.

36:26 When Barack Obama was elected president.

36:32 I am I thought America had achieved one of its stated.

36:41 Purposes of equality and equal opportunity. I thought it was one of our brightest moments.

36:53 They

36:55 The attitude of no compromise and no deals and all of that sort of thing that

37:06 Persist

37:08 In our elected officials

37:12 Is is going to run the country?

37:16 And until we get people that are willing to sit down and talk to one another and like you say find common ground.

37:27 And find a solution that benefits the majority of the population as opposed to a minority of the population.

37:41 Where are swimming Upstream?

37:50 I just wish there were some way.

37:55 To get enough voters out that can share that.

38:03 Future View

38:07 To change the direction that were in now.

38:13 OU point you made

38:21 All right. So my question to you is did you I'm looking at the the props yourself out. The question is. Is there anything you learned about me today Bob that that surprised you?

38:34 I learned a different definition of commune.

38:43 Well, okay good. I also admire the commitment that you got through the process. I think you are more active than I am in the especially the local in the political process.

39:14 I have

39:16 I heard a 1/8 comment on NPR the other day. They were talking about changing. Someone's mind of that, you know a different political opinion. You say you you're not going to change their mind with confrontation and I said changing someone's mind is like they're changing clothes. They're not going to do it when somebody's watching.

39:51 Well, I don't know that there's anything that really surprised me about what I learned today. Actually, I think I learned.

40:05 At what surprised me the most is that we have more in common than we do that separates us exactly how I feel like in a lot of ways we are very much alike and just you know, we are not defined and I also learned that you are not defined by your part.

40:26 And I'm not an I don't think I'm defined by my party. So that's you know, that's kind of a good starting Grand, you know, Bob that if everybody just listen to you and me this would be a much better world. All we need is a chance it in it. So the message for everybody you feeling good.