Sara Rouhi and Maureen Rouhi

00:05 My name is Maureen. Rouhi. I'm 65 years old. Today is Saturday December 14th. 2019. We are at the story Corps in Atlanta. My partner is Sarah and I am Sarah's mom. My name is Sara. Rouhi. I'm 35 years old. Today is Saturday December 14th, 2019. We are at the storycorps in Atlanta. My interview partner is Maureen, rouhi and she's my mom.

00:32 Sara I have very few memories of your childhood. I speak I don't have many pictures and I've always been like a maze when I hear you tell stories of things that happened that I never I never remember so I want you to tell me about the Nina the things that you remember most when you were growing up. I don't know if you remember anything in your wrong, but at least you know, the one when we were you were in St. Louis or in Bishop, I know I don't remember much from Iran. I remember when we went back to run when I was like 11 or so and get results 08. Okay, and that drive through the desert and I remember that's where I like fell in love with

01:30 The pump is Paul Simon album, cuz I was the only one trip and we'd stop at all the like water Ducks things. I really like to dab really like to stop and look at the water the water system system for collecting drinking water. Yeah, and then I remember like being in the car during a sandstorm and I don't remember that there was a sense to me like that again weather weather what one remembers actually happen is a completely different story for that was my experience was there was a sandstorm in the car. And yeah that I remember I remember I think we were there on a legal holiday of a saint or something. So there were like people flagellating in the streets and stuff and I'm going to be really freaked out by that you said was one of the most

02:30 Sacred kind of days in the washer. It's cold and running around scared and all the cousins taking me back and taking ass home and and eating, you know on those big stuff raised with huge huge because because you know you grew up in Virginia. We never had those kinds of things. I was aware of it when I was I was aware that that was how you eat near. That was it wasn't

03:09 It didn't strike me as odd at the time when I first saw those things, you know that they were very very big surf race on the on the floor. When did you first see those things what when I when I but I came to run when I when I first met your mom was our grandma when I went when we went to their house. So it was really not like told you before like we've been with since we've been having meals on the floor together with the other with other, but it but it was the first time I've seen this like hallway length. Yes. Yes, I would like I don't know 30-40 people around around around like a tablecloth on the floor and I was really difficult one to eat. It was it was very difficult because I was not used to sitting down, you know, the sitting sitting down and eating that way and it's like my my plate is so far away from my mouth.

04:09 And and and what astonished me was like people were walking on the people who were coming to put the the plates on this if you know the right stuff on the table called didn't step on the tablecloth and I was just released and me, but but that's how it was with when you have like really really those huge Gathering of when you had when you have that I like for you to first move to Iran.

04:42 I mean think about it like

04:44 You'd when did you leave home? Wanted to go to England 1970 I left in 1978. So you realized England you are like 24.

05:00 Like really young and then you went to Iran when you were with 28:28. Yes. Yes.

05:10 This was before everybody did that think that this is is very rare. I feel like at the time.

05:17 I don't know. I don't know because for me it was it just like an adventure for me. I wasn't scary know. I was never scared. I was never scared. It was really an adventure and

05:37 I you know, I live there. I I stayed with your dad like for 6 months and then I went back to the Philippines and then I'd come back again for six months in the Philippines and then I would stay and then the last two thirds the third time I went there is when I kind of like okay I'm staying here because I was still I had to work in the Philippines or didn't know that you went back and forth for a while. Yeah, so so we were you know, we were married we've been married for like 2 years I think before we had a child before before we had you because I was coming back and forth but

06:17 It was it was for me a big adventure. So I was learning a lot of things. I taught myself how to do speak the language.

06:27 Your dad got for me. A lot of books that were in English. I taught myself. So when your dad went to work during the day, I would have a time that I will just sit down and do my dividers to my practice tomorrow my language class for myself and I had a I had a routine. I mean I had a I had like an exercise cassette that I wouldn't like where they are dancing to Madonna this was this was Madonna at the time and and then and then and then and then your dad will come in the afternoon and and and and that would be like another time with another part of the of the date. You know, whenever he came on the afternoon. There was always something

07:22 Still to go on like we would go out and visit friends at the end of the day or the day. It was never the end of the day. So we would visit friends and so it wasn't I learned enough to go around by myself. Oh, you learned a lot more than that. That was fun. I mean to meet it was very

07:48 It was really I really looked at it as an adventure. That's how I recognized you when you when you came to the us though. Did it feel the same way? Cuz that was a very those like another big move. Well when we came to the US that was kind of different because you were with me. It's you have to you have to take care of another human being again. So I mean it this time you had to take care of another helpless human being so that was a different. That was a different.

08:28 Story all about how you know when we were in your run, you know when you were born. So the first time after you were born that we visited your grandma we went to like a like a fortune teller in Bridgend. Oh, yeah, and this fortune teller cat. We can't forget this your dad and I

08:50 The fortune teller just tell it told us.

08:54 Don't worry about this child. Whatever happens. This child is going to be okay. She'll be fine should be good.

09:03 That's a good that's a good line for a fortune teller. Well everybody I guess it is but you know, it's it's it's stuck with you guys because you know that we would always not always but there were times when we would just spontaneously remember remember what the what the fortune-teller said and then before I before I left for a while and also my I have a friend who likes to Coos like an amateur fortune teller with cards. Okay, and so she was like she was looking at my cards and like and everything like Maureen you're going to be good. Just going to be fine. You're going to succeed. I really

09:53 I I really had to make a living to support you to make to know to do to have a place for ourselves, especially when your dad was, might be Noble originally we lived in your with your uncle member number and do the James house always going through to the Almas like share that glass cabinet with all those you know, she was really in she's really into those blasts like Paul Bowles. Like they're overweight play. I used to have loads of those and I would like to try to take them all out and play with them and I really enjoy the opening and closing the case. When is that? I don't remember you doing I'm not I wasn't with you. No. No, it's like when I was by my don't know what else but myself or you know wandering around the house and I

10:49 I liked like sliding down that little banister even though it was very short Bannister and I really liked eating the creamer ever the dried like milk creamer that would go in like coffee and stuff. They had it out in like in like a spaying and I'd like Tae go in like just take a spoonful and eat it. I really do. You know how my gosh that reminds me of your Lola.

11:18 Your Lola

11:20 She likes that I think that's where I got it cuz she liked it a lot. She liked it a lot and I remember that the Wii she ate avocado. So she put that out ya at on ya put that indents milk, right? Yeah. So that's that's something that you must have picked up from Ola putting in her coffee or maybe even through the James if he don't open again in their coffee, but that was another thing growing up that I always remember is like the long lunches at either James house if he can Alma's house on Sundays, then we watch like basketball and it was back like when Jordan was playing for the Bulls that we watched and then I would I would refer to Kobe Bryant is Kobe.

12:10 Yeah, we'd watch like Steve Kerr and Scottie Pippen and like all those like kind of basketball greats and it was a really nice like so we can have it. I guess we got into in the fall and stuff. You can do it every weekend going to hang out with them. So yeah the max house. I have a lot of memories of like summer just being there and like you doing what I mean like I there was just a lot of running all over the place cuz it felt very big and I would like one of the things you like to do was slide on the stairs member from where the front door was to where Lola's room is down. We would sit on our butts and like all the way down there and then if I could get so angry over a couple times he threatened to like Spike as all of his belt and stuff. It was you anytime any of the other cuz I only ate and the age group was like me Raymond pollen.

13:09 Like that was the end. They were there sometime. Let me know if it was like a family gathering and stuff. But then I remember when when did the Mexicans came over for the first like, you know, let let and stuff like we be together in the summer. I worked instantly remember being there with the messy and Patrick as a baby and playing with him. So I guess we were watching them and give them a nice memory the teeth MSE cooking in that kitchen like okra for some reason. I remember okra and always wanting to eat the raw meat like when she was cooking you wanted to eat raw meat. I didn't know it was I just thought that the way raw like chicken or beef looked looked really yummy, but I wanted to eat it. If you don't have to be like you can do that and I liked it is really understand. Why.

14:02 And energy of that really Buzzy energy. That was really slick what you said you could post it was really fun around the house. But there's a good story have a very distinct memory of being with a member how we had that room like, you know, where the bathroom or take them acts like little bathroom is and then we have the room adjacent to it. We were in the basement noses on the first floor in keto Max house. Yeah. I don't remember being in the basement or in the basement. Well, there was a room we would play sleep and I don't know if it's room with her. So we were sleeping in there. I don't know who it was. I assumed it was you but maybe I was sleeping with you to Janet and we're sleeping in the bed and I must have been like the afternoon and I look up I'm lying on my back and there is a giant

14:54 Like alien hand like inches for my face like

15:01 It yeah, I could have I might have been dreaming. You know, I probably I don't actually stipulate that there was a giant alien, but it was sort of this disembodied giant black hand kind of writhing over my face and it was the site, you know, like the long scary nails and like just like like right there right over my face. I tried to wake whoever was next to me to be like, are you saying this to like, what is this and I just have such a vivid memory of that experience of that moment and

15:38 And maybe have this is only happen to me like once before of that. You know, when your you feel like you're locked like you can't move ya a half awake and half asleep. And I know that I think I was in that sort of thing. Right? I couldn't I couldn't seem to wake you I could or whoever was next to me. I couldn't seem to engage with them. But that was in that house. And that's a that's a memory. I've had four very very long time. You've never mentioned this to me. I don't think so. I don't think so. But I'll remember it from time to time. This is the first time I'm hearing that yeah. Yeah. It was a very interested is make you anxious. I mean, it was scary at the time. I mean in retrospect, I think it's really interesting but

16:23 Yeah.

16:25 But it never didn't ya didn't it didn't upset me and not like I didn't want to go in that room anymore. Like I just it was just an interesting moment that lasted I remember that room.

16:39 One of the most

16:43 I don't know what I don't know one of the most I guess regretful things. One of my biggest regrets is I didn't see your struggles when you were a child when you were young.

17:02 And I did Zion t and c. I remember I discovered it one day you were subbing in the bathroom. This was just before you were going to England you were already in college.

17:17 And the summer that you were just before you're going to England, I just heard you just you were in the bathroom. You were having a shower, but you were just sobbing hysterically.

17:31 I don't remember that you don't remember that. Yeah, but I couldn't sleep in but I get really anxious in the car. And you know, I didn't really see that coming and I am so regretful of that and you told me some time ago that when you were like an elementary that sometimes he would just cry or you would be sad and you just thought that that was normal. Do you remember that?

18:10 No, but I mean maybe but I mean I think

18:15 You don't like it Elementary School in high school and I was aware of the fact that you know, we didn't have money and being worried about money and being worried about them. I remember distinctly feeling like I've really let down the side when I didn't get a scholarship for High School cuz I knew how expensive high school is going to be in but you know, a lot of it was anxiety is just a very anxiety-prone kid and when that doesn't get dealt with and I like how are you supposed to know? This is my thing is like how you know, you're at your apparent single parent, you know, most of the time trying to like he had it all together. I don't I don't think that's a fair expectation that we were together like we were together most of the time and I never ever saw you

19:03 Like I know I just never I just never suspected something was amiss. I don't think I did either though. I mean, I think most of that stuff does tend to crystalize when you're like in your late teens or early twenties like a lot of that stuff is

19:18 Are there mental health issues? That's that's when they in your Crystal eyes to something. It has to be addressed and then prior to that it was sporadic, you know anxiety attacks with things like that. Yeah, but I cannot fathom how

19:33 You know, what? Where did you get the I guess the strength the will to

19:42 You went to England?

19:44 Right. Oh, yeah, right after I think it was such a relief that I wasn't going to Spain because we'd had that horrible trip. And you know, the reason I got sick on that trip was because I was so like scared anxious of doing that trip doing going there for the year abroad. And so I think in a lot of ways, I was really relieved because I mean, I knew that when I knew. I've been there before there was strong Affinity with that place and so that was an adventure, you know caught up with me eventually when I was there but not until the very end.

20:20 Not until the very end and I wasn't you know, that was a once-in-a-lifetime.

20:24 Yeah, but yeah, but you were kind of like all on your own there and I don't know. I mean, I just don't know what it's like to feel like that there are more like that in Madison than I've ever felt like that in England. I never felt like I'm all alone. I'm going to take care of myself. How am I going to

20:46 Is an end in Madison to I mean that was I couldn't understand why you were so stubborn about going to Madison and and you didn't want us to take to bring you to Madison.

20:59 Oh, I don't know, you know like you're graduating from college. You think you like know how you're going to be in what you're going to do and I you were you just you or just you just want you just didn't want to have anything to do this. We offered to take you there. I don't remember having a feeling militantly about you would not accept any help. I don't know why I must have wanted to try to figure it out on my own and you did you really did.

21:29 Yeah with the help from from your from your from your advisor, but I couldn't find the sum of the series of mistakes that needed to be made, you know, the development to get through that. That was a very important to you know, you have to go down to Hades before you come out. So that was my plutonium, but I just couldn't imagine I mean, I don't know how it's like I have no idea what it's like and health mental health problems. Okay, it's not if you don't if you don't know what it's now a chronic mental health issue is very different from periodically being sad or you know, so so, how did you reach the the decision to conclude your studies in Madison?

22:24 Is it going to rain at that?

22:27 That really fancy editors meeting you go to every year like the one in Arizona I think and I think I have been mulling it over.

22:36 And sort of mentally made the decision there.

22:40 But but yeah, but I don't actually drove you. Oh, I think because up until that point I was

22:51 I mean, I was barely functioning. I was just I was barely I was you know over with my medications are all wrong. I was sleeping 16 hours a day. I was agoraphobic. I couldn't go outside. I mean it was just it was just like a quality of life that wasn't sustainable anymore. You know, it wasn't it wasn't you can live like that anymore and so just coming home and

23:14 Starting afresh. And then I think went like the market crashed like yours is 2008. So there was this feeling of urgency that like

23:22 You know, everything's getting real. So, you know, if you want to find a job if you want to be able to find a

23:28 Something else did you know to start up and it's not a career at least a way to pay the bills and not going to be a lot of time to do that. But yeah, I think it was.

23:40 I mean it wasn't yeah by the time I wanted to leave Madison, it was like intolerable and I can barely I can barely go to I might have gone to class and I could I was still teaching but I was

23:54 Doing it out of like a really intense sense of obligation. I could barely drag myself to those things. So I think yeah, it was just like what why would I stay and like being miserable was not a

24:10 Prefer extended periods of time was not a

24:14 I just didn't see that as a something I wanted to do.

24:17 So at this point these are those kind of behind you or do you know those those those feeling of miserable and and and a mental health situation? How do you feel about yourself now and would respect to those issues only reason they're behind me is because they're treated right? I mean, it's a medical condition. I mean if you are diabetic and you don't have insulin your miserable it's a different kind of but it's you it's it's not different and so coming back here getting appropriate and Madison, but them the incorrect.

24:58 The incorrect diagnosis and pain meds. I was given were a real problem. But yeah, it's no establishing a network and and having the support.

25:11 In terms of both the sir Heidi and Mike and the and the studying I was doing and then just having the right medication blanket just night and day something happened to that medication. If I were not have to have access to that anymore things would probably it would be that that's not a power through kind of thing. It would it would it would return it's a list of chronic illness remind me how you met Heidi and Mike. Oh, yeah. Well, so I was a senior in this town. You were still in undergrad come back from England was still pretty miserable and

25:53 I had seen the signs like a meditation class and I thought like a meditation is such BS and all of this is BS but at this point I was like, I'm so miserable that I'll try anything. I mean it's like if anything makes me feel better. I'll try it.

26:05 Play wanted to the class and there's this like giant black guy in like that sort of Muslim dress. And then there's this, you know, very beautiful white woman in like a starry and they're both like in Lotus position and your life and there's nobody else there because nobody ever went and sat down and and Mike did his usual Mike thing of like we know what is a beautiful 20-something like doing here and I was like, I'm really anxious. I'm really see now or whatever and he's like, well, what do you have to be anxious about you know, and that was the beginning of

26:40 You know lifelong relationship with them, but the combination of them plus meds was what made you know made things. Okay, but the

26:55 And I'm at the point, you know, I don't I can I can fend for myself in terms of like

27:03 Being a human an adult but

27:07 Let the meds were to go away that would make a difference like at the end being bipolar is being bipolar. There's nothing just know you treated are you don't so so I know you've been working with Mike and and Heidi for many many many many years, but if you can like summarize and in like 1 2 3, I don't know what were the things that they talk to you or you learn from them that it is kind of like

27:40 The basic thing that's makes you feel so confident now, I think they spoke a language that I understood. Like I was enough start a memory like freshman year of college like I was looking for a

27:54 A belief system or a belief structure to sort of ground me and it wasn't going to be Catholicism anymore. You know, I have grown that it was I thought it might be kind of what I had been studying in terms of, you know, political philosophy of things like that. It was going to be that and so they kind of open to me a different vocabulary to think about the way the world is organized and one's own role in it and ones what one can change in one one Canton and the vocabulary that they use I understood so suddenly I felt like I had some agency and the other approaches very try it if it works then keep doing it and if it doesn't work don't do it, like everything was very empirical are you know, if you're breathing this strange way, you know seems to make you feel better than you know stick with that, but then you know,

28:51 Trusting me enough to explain will here's why you feel better. Here's what you know, here's what is behind that sexy a psychologically physiologically what's happening? Right? So it was the

29:07 Total trust and then

29:11 The

29:13 Skills that they were giving me an I understood and I just got lucky in that I found them and I needed to be spoken to in that way. And that's that's what I got from them. We're like therapy wasn't going to do that or church. I'm going to do that or any other things. I'm very very grateful to them because they really really I think they were very key to your overcoming those those those those huge huge challenges challenges too or just the challenges of growing up right. I mean being going from your teens to your 20 has a tough with a very tough age we talked about this the very tough age. Anyway, you're sure you know, your you have the body of an adult but the brain of a child and you're trying to navigate all these different things and you think you know everything so it's it should be it should be easy and and they just gave me a way to organize the kind of chaos of that time irrespective of the month.

30:13 Mental health issues. So yeah, I'm very grateful to them, too.

30:20 So you are a you are a mixed-race person and and and what how how how how has that affected you I mean, this is a silly question because How would how would you know because if this is the only existence you know, but

30:45 It's I mean, it's is it's interesting. I've been trying to write a new stand-up set around this cuz I'll really know I should see that.

31:00 You know reflecting on it. I only like growing up. I only ever perceived my difference are our differences a family as a curiosity. I feel really lucky that I we were never did our differences never really highlighted as a as a bad thing as a unwelcome thing as a not to be tolerated saying it was just like an end. So when people inquired about where you from where your parents from or what are you that was a very common question was very strange, What are you it was generally from a place of curiosity not from a place of hostility or or xenophobia are some of the things you people do you think now could be a reason somebody ask you that but

31:49 So now I and then I don't think I was fully aware of it as a thing until I got to college probably it was I was very lucky growing up that I didn't really think of us isn't the only difference. I proceed between me and my peers we didn't have as much money as other people have right, but it but not in terms of

32:12 You know.

32:14 The the the ethnic ethnic background and didn't play to that and

32:22 Yeah, I mean, it's it's it's

32:26 You know as well, so it was never a disadvantage.

32:30 No, it was it was but it we know with the opposite right you was exoticized the being being mixed race and you know reasonably attractive if it came up like a cool thing right in a in a

32:50 Yeah, they made its exoticize for better for worse. And so you're treated a special you're treated as a unique thing that dude doesn't exist anywhere else and that's really special and you know that confers benefits then but it also confirms a weird kind of tokenism of like look at this. Look at this special thing at a time. I have Rhino or you know, it's it's a it's an interesting because if you think about it, too, I mean like you guys chose to be in a mixed race mixed cultural in it, and I wouldn't us a mixed-race. I would say mixed culture are the cultural differences and allow is a lot bigger than the difference.

33:30 Before anybody else did before it was a thing, you know, so there aren't a lot of growing up there weren't a lot of people of color and in any of the schools I went to in stuff and when they were they were almost never mix race that were just, you know, another another ethnic background, so

33:51 You know I said probably not unlike people who are adopted it just the the the understanding of like, who am I and where at where do I belong involves and kind of continues to evolve and there's always a bit of a feeling of you know, what you don't really belong anywhere because you're sitting at the intersection of a number of different places how has that change as you have, you know us you have come into your own as an adult.

34:19 I think

34:21 I think the the the biggest way that you and I are being in the in the US I think allows for this. I'll see how much longer but with a feeling of like well doesn't matter your American right? And that was something I really came to embrace as a probably college and grad student was thinking of yourself myself as you know, I'm not

34:42 Filipino I'm not Persian inner, you know, I'm a mixed-race American and and certainly is live older. I think I've come to think growing up identified more with Dad side and as an adult, I identify with more than yours, but it would not be accurate to say that identify. I therefore am Filipino or person like I don't I don't think that I am but

35:06 Yeah, I think the ability to be able to say like I'm an American is a very special thing but it's a specific kind of American right at this specific kind of experience and it's not an experience that's documented often. It's not an experience of sucked about off and it's you know, we're not we're not a tiny group of us are not a community that needs its profile to raise the way other communities do so. It's

35:32 It's Unique, but it's largely been beneficial as opposed to a barrier. I think we're really lucky.

35:39 But that worked out for us. What's it like for you having been a

35:46 Did you ever perceive yourself as like in a unique like your relationship and your child being unique? Did you even have time to observe and I know no I just I've always thought my I've always thought of myself as an American, you know, I never really

36:07 I mean, I think I think this idea of race and ethnicity. It's becoming I'm I'm more sensitized or sensitive to it now than ever before. I just I just thought that you know, just like Filipino before you came to the US.

36:29 Yeah. Yeah, I did I did. I mean I was Filipino what before I came to the US but once I get but once I arrived in the US I just felt like oh, I'm I'm just I'm just another American person, you know going about trying to make a life for myself and my family I wasn't I have this so I had this thing work.

36:57 I didn't want to harken back to like being Filipino or being being Persian or whatever. Like when I went to Iran. I was tried very hard to be Persian. But yeah, I really tried and it didn't I didn't in system by, Filipino and I should do this. And so when I arrive in the United States, it's kind of like the same thing. You know, I'm I'm this is my this is my situation. This is my contacts and I should you adapt adapt. I think I'm bi in in that way. I was I was never I never really here you'd to like, you know, being silly Pinot or something whatever it's just whatever the situation was. I would I would see myself I would if I would have got to it. That's that's what I did try to do.

37:52 And I really just wanted to

37:55 Build a good life for you and you know eventually for your dad when he eventually he he joined us for good. That was my goal. That was that was my singular goal to make your dad.

38:09 I feel comfortable and feel good about deciding to stay in the United States. That was that was my that was like my compact for many many many many many years. So what is it now that you achieve that?

38:26 Oh, no, I'm like, I'm trying to enjoy myself now. I've done that. So I'm like, okay, you're in a good place and that is that is fine. So now I understand what the happiest you've ever been all my God. This is so this is not a fair question, but I will tell you the truth the happy the pure joy. I felt only once in my life that was when I completed.

38:59 My PhD my defense of my dissertation that was pure and a Lloyd Joy. It was just while I was at it was not it was not getting married your dad if it was not being born and it was not you being born. I mean those things were happy things, but they were they had a lot of like complication. I had a lot of complexity. This was pure joy.

39:28 And that is at the time I achieved and it wasn't my goal. It was really my goal. I I'm going to get a PhD and once I achieved that it was just like the happiest now, I think that's pretty clear answer. I think that's a good place to that's a good place to the Wreck-It up against. Yes. Will thank you for thank you for coming to visit me and do spending time with me here. And yeah, especially now that I'm going back to Virginia leaving Atlanta. I'm I feel a little bit sad and so I was really happy that you would come and share this with me how I was I was very happy to and I am I

40:15 I'm very excited for the next the next round of things. So thank you, Mom. Love you. Love you, too.