Sanford Orenstein and Neil Orenstein

00:07 All right. Let's get started. I'm going to start by Dean myself.

00:13 I am Neil orenstein. I am 46 years old.

00:18 It is one 2706.

00:23 And we are at 1650 Northwest 18th Avenue, Delray Beach, Florida, and I'll be interviewing Sanford orenstein.

00:31 My dad

00:34 If you could talk.

00:38 Say who you are and hello there. Hi, I'm Sanford Sandy Ornstein, and I'm Neil's dad.

00:49 The date

00:50 Today is January.

00:56 27th 2006

01:02 We are at 1650 Northwest 18th Avenue Unit 102 in Delray Beach, Florida.

01:13 All right. Let's get started with a few questions first.

01:20 I would like to know you are best memory of childhood.

01:26 Well, I we lived in Springfield Mass which is where I was born and

01:34 I slept with my grandpa.

01:36 For about 11 years is my mother's father a terrific guy originally from Russia and my memories were of him leaving early early in the morning to go and buy vegetables which he would pedal through the small towns of New England he go into a timer. We're Gilbertville all those small towns where they didn't have the type of stores that would have fresh vegetables and it was great to wake up in the morning with Grandpa.

02:11 Can you tell me your worst memory of your childhood?

02:16 At about seven or eight years old. We used to ride our bicycles out to Longmeadow and there was a lake there which we used to swim was kind of illegal because it was privately owned and at one point we've got into a little small boat which was at a dock and we took the boat out and we kept

02:41 Fooling around till it fills with water and started to go down and I almost drowned I went down for the just like you see in the movies 3 times and a third time was just Blackness and I woke up laying on the beach with my friends crying thought I was dead and that was a terrible memory.

03:04 Can you describe a perfect day when you were young?

03:08 Perfect day was early in the morning in the summer time when there was no school a couple of my friends would come knocking on the window. We've lived on a in a two-family house and I was on the first floor of the could be just getting light out and we would they would knock on the window and I'd sneak out with him and we go to Forest Park which was a park with about nine miles square and we play ball and if we had any money at all around 11, we going to this place called slattery's and we have a hot dog, which was $0.10 and it was just the days went by quickly and the Sun was shining. It was a wonderful time.

03:50 What did you think your life would be like when you got older?

03:54 Well, the only thing we were quite for 1946 my father work for the Westinghouse it right after the war they were allowed to go on strike for better wages, which they did and in Casa Grande was no money at all. It was a very very tough time. And so I always thought I'd like to be rich, you know, we used to go to the movies once in awhile when you see people that were wealthy, you know.

04:21 Chris at the time. I didn't know that there was well, I thought that everybody was for the way we were there was there was no extras or anything. You didn't have ice cream or be able to go to a store and get a Coca-Cola or anything but I always thought we would it be super to be able to get whatever you want and buy whatever you want. My dad didn't have her car at that time even and other people did have a car and I envied them I said she's I could go for a ride on a Sunday afternoon song.

04:47 Do you feel you've managed to accomplish what you set out to do as far as that goes absolutely through the years. We just had a wonderful time in that without thinking you just keep working and keep doing the best you can and all of a sudden you look around you say G. I'm in pretty good shape right now, you know, you don't realize it as you're plugging away, but at a certain point and now I'm retired here in Florida and have been for about 11 years and we just having the greatest time and we never thought that there was a way to live where you just have a great time every single day you do whatever you want to do and I'll see all the shows and go where you want and do what you want. It's just a great great a reward for a lifetime of hard work.

05:37 Was there a teacher or teachers that had a particular influence on you when you were young?

05:45 Not really. I really hated school used to skip school a lot as much as I could get away with I was bored. Basically it was very very uninteresting to me and I really wanted to get out and trying to make a buck, you know and consequently at a certain point they gave me tests and decided that I would be best to be able to work with my hands, you know as a Tradesman so they sent me to a trade school in Springfield and I took some Auto Body some auto repair. And also I learned to be a machinist which I really never use but knowledge is knowledge. It was it was good in any case because today I can still change an alternator in a car do whatever I have to do mechanically wears. A lot of my friends that are very very well educated here in Florida are we have doctors and with phds and they still call me when the car won't start.

06:40 So it's

06:46 I get the sense that you didn't understand the value of education at that point. Is that is that true? Absolutely did not realize what it would mean later on. The thing is that after I got married my wife encouraged me to read and I read constantly now she brings me several books a week and it's mostly

07:09 Autobiographies, I don't like fiction consequently. I've read all of cells releases books. I read. You know an awful lot about true history. And so I can I feel it that has been very educational for me.

07:29 Growing up you had always encouraged the kids to continue with their education and to work hard and to study so it sounds like you have come around to understand that education is in fact valuable with the was that a true statement?

07:45 I learned that later on but the thing is when the kids were young. I really didn't think the school is very important consequently. I used to get them to skip once in awhile to go on the road with me and my wife used to get very upset because she was always really into the education thing despite the fact that I didn't make an important every one of them went to college and every went off. My kids are extremely successful because of it.

08:11 Well, I have very fond memories of traveling with you. And of course to me there was value in that that was an education in and of itself to see how the real world work. Do you have any favorite stories from school either when you were in school younger or Ryan trade school?

08:37 When I was in trade school, the Korean war was an effect in as I say, I was bored with school. I did not like it and I had a friend that was went into the Air Force and he had a couple of weeks leave and I didn't even know about it, but he came into the school went into the phone booth in the right in the school where I was going to trade school and he called the office which was right next door to the phone booth and he said that he was my brother-in-law and that there was an emergency and I would have to go with him and get out of school.

09:11 So consequently we skipped for the day and had a hell of a good time.

09:20 Are you able to tell me your earliest childhood memory?

09:26 My earliest memory

09:28 Is and I'm really not that old but we lived on a street called Narragansett Street, which was in the North End of Springfield Mass and very very early in the morning. I was walking everyday by horses Hoops the horse would come down the street will deliver milk and the horse knew how to stop at each house because it was a month after month we go to the same route and I hear that clip-clap in the morning and I feel looked out. You see the man in the white outfit completely white uniform very very clean with it. As matter fact. It was a white wagon that the horse will be pulling and it was a very very pleasant experience. I sometimes think of it now and it falling asleep.

10:17 Let's talk about mother for a few minutes and your relationship. Can you tell me how you met her and it's going to take me through that a little bit.

10:30 I went to I bought a new car is the First new car and I had 36 months to pay for it and the finance company was GMAC on State Street in Springfield. And I decided one day instead of mailing it I happen to be in the area. I'd go and pay the for the monthly payment myself and I walked in and it was a beautiful redhead who turned out to be my wife later and I made the payment to her. And then after that I started going in there and my mother would say well, why don't you email it? I said I'm going to be up there. Anyway, I actually wanted to see her obviously and I eventually asked you to go out. And actually I thought you was Irish and I thought that I would buy her a beer with she would like very much to discover that she wasn't Irish at all if she didn't like beer.

11:24 So do you want me to tell the rest of the story?

11:30 I had a friend that was a pilot is 16 years old who got his pilot's license and he would want to buy an airplane and he asked me to go in with him strictly as a business situation. I had a few dollars saved up. You said we would keep it for a year or so and we could make money with it. And so I ended up being partners with him in the airplane at a certain point. He was ready to go bankrupt and he wanted me to buy him out and I have to know nothing about airplanes. In fact, I used to get air sick a few times that I had flown in drivers taking Martha out the girl from GMAC. I told her the story and the next day. She showed up the money and bought him out.

12:12 So we're practicing an airplane and I said she's I have a problem. I wouldn't be able to pass the written test which was very very difficult not having had enough a lot of schooling and certainly I wouldn't be able to fly. She said I can get you through the written test and I'm sure if you're flying at yourself as you would get over the air sickness, which is what happened consequently. I got a license and her and I used to take that airplane and go different places with it. We had a even after work we'd get in the airplane and fly from Northampton Mass to down to a New London Connecticut and go for a swim and come back and it was just a great time course fuel was about $0.28 a gallon for fuel for that airplane to prune four gallons an hour to cruise over a hundred miles an hour and we had a great time. And of course at that point I said, well I got to marry this girl.

13:08 Just a follow-up or what type of airplane this was a taylorcraft bc12d. It was 65 horsepower Lycoming engine a very very efficient forgiving airplane. It was made by Taylor craft and they manufacture them up till about 1951 or two today. They're worth about 25 or 30 times what we paid for the airplane and there's still quite value in this many of them still flying.

13:38 Can you tell me about meeting mom's parents?

13:43 These people were from

13:46 They actually came from Europe but ended up in Cuba and from Cuba they came to United States. My father-in-law was a butcher and he was promised a job in New York when things got slow there they heard about the small town called Springfield mess and they thought it was all Farms so they came with food and everything on a train and fabulous people just the best best people when they met me they said don't let that boy go. That's a good boy. And of course, they fed me good and I just felt right perfectly into that family.

14:24 How does this leaks when the stuff she puts me? How did you propose to mother?

14:32 I didn't quite I was kind of shy and I didn't quite know how to handle it, you know, so when I told my mom that I wanted to marry, my mother was crazy about Marathon my wife and consequently, she wanted me to trade in a ring that she had that they had paid a couple hundred dollars for in the 20s. And so I bought a ring which was a lot of money at the time and I didn't quite know how to handle it. So I put it in the glove compartment of the car and I picked her up to take her somewhere and I said there's something for you in the glove compartment and she says well, what is this and I said well if you going to marry me that was it.

15:13 Children

15:16 Yep.

15:22 Once you got married, what were what were the best times?

15:26 We just had fantastic times. First of all when we got engaged we immediately started to save our money together and one account, you know, we did everything together. In fact, we started to do some business and we were kind of Partners. We I've started to buy a couple of cars that we're repossessed. She was with GMAC and she kind of new kind of what the bids would be to take back these Repose and consequently I was able to bid on a car and we would make a few dollars and split the money and she was always very very smart. And every time we looked at a piece of property as the years went on she would say Let's Take a Shot. Let's try to buy this and and consequently, we're not retired because of that. The other thing is that we've had an apartment on Longhill Street with right at the top top of a of the city. Will you could look out over the city and the Connecticut River Tubing again, we just

16:23 Being cut loose from parents ate whatever we wanted. I mean everything that we ate was wrong. We know now, we buy big Hershey bars with almonds. We would have lobster chunks and butter we buy steaks and we we just live high on the hog. It was just a matter of time for a couple years till the kids came on it but in the interim we did whatever we wanted to do, you know having lived at home, although she doesn't have to do what you were told at home. This was just a great time.

16:56 What was the most difficult time during that.

17:01 Well, I work for a company for 25 years on the road and I was on commission only and consequently if there was a truck strike which happened a few times when they didn't deliver the goods. We didn't get paid. We only got paid when the stuff was shipped and being on the commission was very very difficult. We only got paid once a month and sometimes they would be a season where the Retailer's weren't doing business and consequently, they didn't pay us and so we didn't ship them and it was very very difficult financially sometimes.

17:36 Truthfully on a Friday afternoon. We would take the kids to my mother-in-law's about 4 and she did insist we stay for supper and of course we needed to separate we didn't we didn't really have money we wouldn't admit it and they would feed us and we would leave and that would eliminate one meal so that was kind of a tough time. But as I've said in the past if you do the best you can every day and you just keep plugging away and doing the right thing eventually everything works out.

18:08 When did you first find out that you were going to be a parent?

18:13 It was a kind of a tough time because we wanted children and nothing was happening and consequently Martha was very upset because we had friends that we're having children at the time we could never afford it and we both decide to go for tests and we went in and I was all right, and she went into the doctor wanted to stay overnight protest and he called the next day nieces. I don't know what she's doing here. She's pregnant. So it's just one of those things, you know, and the other point is that we were never sure when she was going to have the baby that we didn't know and we are actually about a month off at one point. I took Martha to the hairdresser and

19:00 She said she was having terrific pains and I so let's go to the hospital should not know it says we're about a month away or whatever and I said look, if you got pain let's go. She's all I got to finish with the hairdresser after the hairdresser. We went to the hospital and she had Neil the first baby within 20 minutes and I thought they were kidding me on it like came out and they said you had a baby boy and I was very upset because I just couldn't believe it. I said, why would you kidding me like that and they kept insisting and of course I went in and had a flat belly at that point and there was a little Neil

19:33 Can you describe that moment when you saw me for the first time?

19:39 I thought it really was kind of a monkey was so damn ugly just kidding, but I had never seen a baby brand new. I'll wrinkled up like that and red face and I thought maybe it was something wrong and they said no that's how babies look when they come out. I was I was really kind of dumb in those days about things like that. But when I started to call the family to tell him we had a baby boy. They all thought I was kidding. I had to really push to make them understand this really happened, but it was really a great time. And we also never read a book or anything about this and we didn't know really kind of handle this thing and consequently we brought in your home. Will you bathe him in the sink in the kitchen and we thought we didn't want him to catch cold and we had a will outfit that was needed by an aunt and we put them in this outfit with a sweater and a turtleneck and a hat and he got very very red in my mother-in-law came in and she started yelling at us.

20:39 I said what are your crazy? He's he's overheating. You know, we didn't realize we thought that these supposed to be very warm, but we had dressing like he was going to Alaska.

20:53 Do you remember when your last child left home?

20:59 All of the kids ended up going to college and three of my girls went to UMass and we had this Volkswagen bus that was very very weak. You had to shift it into second gear to go up any little Hill and we would load it up with with their belongings in the stereos and clothes and so on and the last one actually was Susie was my youngest and after going to college she wanted to be a buyer for a department store. So she wanted to Fashion market and we kept saying look at this no money in it plus the fact that these stores take advantage of these kids and make them work 100 hours a week for nothing and making promises and maybe one out of twenty ever becomes a buyer.

21:47 And at a certain point one of her friends said that she was in library sciences and it was a wonderful career and she decided to switch after having worked in the several stores for a year and then got her degree and became very successful New York City working. Actually. She is an Information Specialist. You could call her and ask her the mean temperature in Guam and she could look it up for you and tell you the unemployment rate in someone and we should became very very specialized in that field until she met her husband and and a stopped working.

22:25 What were the hardest moments you had when the kids were growing up?

22:34 Well actually is I think back, you know, we didn't know any better. We thought everybody did it we did when the kids were young. We bought a tent and we took the kids camping. I mean leaving with bottles and diapers and everything. We went way into the woods or like Champlain up and I want to put up in Burlington Vermont North Hero Vermont and we went to Winnipesaukee over in New Hampshire and everyone to Connecticut. We've had such wonderful times with the kids and even though we didn't have a lot of money at that time. We just had a great time with him. We were on the Canadian border and all of the kids was talking French and my kids said they were talking and we don't understand what they're saying, you know, it was very funny cuz I had never heard a different language like that, you know, but the only really difficult time I think was I used to worry a lot when they were

23:29 Teenagers and would go out and come in 1 2 3 in the morning. You used to drive me crazy that they get an accident or something, you know because they became quite valuable to me at that point. I figured after bringing them up. They start sending me money or something, you know.

23:48 If you could do everything again, would you raise us? Would you have raised us differently exactly the same I would have done everything the same. I can't think of anything any different. The only thing is that I did take some chances in that for many years. I had a motorcycle and I used to take the kids riding on the motorcycle and sometimes I think I thinking back I took too many chances few times. I'll do everything worked out. We never ever thank God. I've never had an accident or a problem. But I'd take for instance my daughter Sharon and she say faster dad fast. You got to go faster, you know, and of course I would I get on the highway and I roll that's the only thing that I probably would would do differently thinking back. I shouldn't have taken the chances that I did a person taking them flying was not dangerous at all. I was always very careful to check everything over and over again and that I could be talking to them and I was still be looking where I land if I quit on me which never happened and then I flew

24:48 Floats for the river the Connecticut River. I had a a license to fly on water water rating as we call it and it was lovely on a Sunday morning to take the kids up around town and and the land and the water, you know, I saw that that was there was no danger there basically.

25:10 Besides Rich when you were young, what what did you want to be when you grew up?

25:17 Well a lot of times, you know, when you talk to the kids today, they say they want to be a fireman or they want to be a police officer at 14 years old. I helped out on a gas station working on the corner and there was a fellow that came in that had been an attorney's name is Robert Raymour and he was what would be the CIA today? It was before the CIA where he investigated people that we're supposed to be in the service or a while or something and he was the first one I ever say at a 4046 Chevrolet with a actual telephone in the car and I was very impressed and I thought that I would like to be like him and be undercover and working not this as a police officer, but what would be an FBI agent or what became the CIA and at that point? I thought that would be so glamorous and also as I drove him home to take his car back to change.

26:17 Which I did at 14 years old. He's hand me his 38 revolver Say Hey Kid hold this for me. It's getting heavy till we got home.

26:28 When you were younger, did you get into trouble?

26:32 Hellboy

26:33 Got in a lot of trouble I hung with her group of guys that we were very very close and we did things that were really today. We probably get shot. But one of the things we did, we had a fellow on Maryland Street. His name was right now ski who had a huge truck and he would wholesale vegetables basically, I guess because we would sneak out at 5 or 4 in the morning and go to the back of his house where he parked back the truck into the driveway and we still a watermelon and of course at 10 eleven years old watermelon was a wonderful thing to have well, we would break the thing up and we would eat the watermelon until we were so sick the four years. I've never wanted to eat watermelon, but we did things like that. We really didn't do any harm matter-of-fact years later. I saw miss the right now ski, and I told him we had stolen watermelon from and I wanted to pay you.

27:33 And he laughed and he said I knew it was watermelon missing that whole summer. He said but I never could prove anything.

27:42 Would you tell me the worst thing you ever did?

27:48 You really want me to tell you the worst thing well.

27:51 We decided a certain point out about probably 14 years old four of us. We're going to break into what they call a Bernese estate in Forest Park and Bernice a state became a museum. It was actually burning who was reputed invented the the ball bearing roller skates and made a Fortune of money and left for us back to the City of Springfield and he had this huge mansion, which they later on turned into a museum and that later became part of Route 91. They had to knock it down because of the highway, but in there was hundreds and hundreds of guns on the wall by Smith & Wesson because Smith & Wesson, I was the big manufacturing Springfield, Mass Smith & Wesson.

28:37 Revolvers basically and we figured that if we broke in there and we took out a couple of hundred guns, we could sell them for $10 a piece and are 14 year old mines. We thought that would just be terrific. We can almost retired while it was didn't have any money at the time. Well, we figured it out that one of the guys would be the lookout which it would be several hundred feet away and the other three of us would break in and we figured it out so that we went in during the day went into the men's room and we took a glass cutter and we cut the glass round and round and round so that we figured we'd go in at night and put a piece of tape on and knock it out with our hands and we can when we get the guns.

29:20 And we had a system where the time coffee. Who is the lookout later became a United Airlines pilot used to several hundred feet away. And as we start at the tape and knock the glass out, he started to whistle which meant hold it stop at something is happening with a motorcycle cop came over to him. His name was Ted heart. He was a wonderful guy that would happen to live on the next street to Tommy coffee used to take the kids to play baseball and he said what are you doing here in time? You said? Well, I got a bad report card and and I got kicked out of the house and he said I gave him a quarter to go buy a milkshake from self and he said you do.

30:07 You go home and apologize to your parents, you know, if he's yelling stop it you guys got to stop because you know, he knows me and knows my family we're going to go to jail, you know, and we were ready to break the break in and consequently, we started a fight with him and he was tougher than we were and he grabbed one of the guys would have Jack Chauvin who's gone now and Crush we stopped. Well a couple days later in the paper. It said that somebody had tried to break into brownies estate because they had we had cut the glass but that was the end of our career as criminals and it was a pretty good lesson because it is I think back it probably would have been pretty bad. We most likely would have been caught.

30:50 And that was the most illegal thing that we did.

30:57 What lessons have you or has your work life. You?

31:03 The main thing is especially when you're on commission that if you do the very best you can every day. You've done the best you can you can't do any better than that and no matter what the sales manager tells you or you know, you can't do any better than you did your conscience is clear and you'll be a success I discovered at a certain point. I'm working for this huge company that doesn't the billions of dollars now and I retired from them in 1978 after 25 years. They used to send a telegram to all the salesmen. I didn't know that they were sent to all the salesman in my wife method used to destroy it so I wouldn't see it and it would say why aren't your figures higher? Why aren't you doing more business, but I didn't know that they just sent it to everyone. They didn't look at your figures and of course it would make you crazy because you are working alone. You don't have anybody watching over your shoulder.

31:59 And the fact is if you're doing enough business and you're making a good living and they're happy they happy but their sales manager would always try these different gimmicks to upset you to try to push harder. But I knew if I did the best I could I couldn't do any better than that. That's the bottom line and after many years. I became the man of the year. I won all kinds of awards and I retired and I'm in a very nice situation and I've got my pension since 1978 not big but it comes every single month.

32:31 What are you proudest of in your life?

32:35 My for kids

32:37 Absolutely.

32:41 When in your life have you felt most alone?

32:46 Oh after my father died when I was very young and I was supporting the family and it was a very very lonely time because it didn't really have any help. I was 100% alone and trying to make it for the whole family was a tremendous burden. How about, you know when you married successfully as I was after all of that is forgotten because times are so wonderful and you have a great partner.

33:18 How has your life been different from what you had imagined?

33:23 Well, you know when you're working very hard through the years you don't think about retirement and you don't realize until we came to Florida to rent to see how we would like Florida because I had had a triple bypass in the years before the doctor said, you know, this cold is not good for you warm weather would be much better, you know, so we decided we would rent in the when he came down to Florida in this condo. We walk over to the pool and his people standing around telling jokes figuring where to go to eat this evening and hey, how about tomorrow? We're meeting both go for a swim in the ocean and and I said to Martha I can't believe they not thinking about business and not thinking about money. They're just thinking about having fun and I didn't realize such a lifestyle existed. And of course after a couple weeks we said hey, this is for us. This is the way to go we have so many people that we know.

34:23 Friends that wait too long and they end up with a stroke or heart attack or they wait too long and we've discovered what's important now is to take care of your health and make sure that you live long enough to maybe see one or two grandkids get married. So what's important now, I must say that all the things we worried about all those years. They were okay. We make a payment on this or that off everything. We worry about never happens.

34:53 Are there any particular words of wisdom you like to pass on to me?

34:59 Yes, after many many years of study. I've discovered black birds. Don't fly at night.

35:08 Tiffany thing I can say is just keep doing what you're doing. Every one of my four kids and 10 grandkids. Every one of them is a gym and the only one we ever had a bail out of jail with Susie, which is my youngest daughter quick story. She went out with her friends that they meet every Saturday night after a date. This is some years ago and they would meet at Denny's in kinetic is just over the line from Massachusetts where we live.

35:39 And this particular night, they're eating and eating is for them all very wealthy. By the way of what is the present of a huge companies is second one is the head of the huge doctor in Springfield. So on and they discover they have no money and after they stuff themselves they said hey, let's make a run for it, you know as they ran into the parking lot. There was two state troopers waiting for them and they were arrested in they were put in jail 3 in the morning. I got a call soon as this is Dad. She got to go bail for me. So why don't you call it would have brought you $20. I don't know if we thought we could get away with so Susie is basically only one out of my for kids that I had to bail out of jail where you went to court with it and the car she was an a student and she had been doing volunteer work in and the judge looked at her and he said I have to sentence you and after a long pause.

36:35 He said to one day of community service while she wasn't relieved cuz she could care less. She said that I knew I wasn't in really bad trouble. I said you got to understand. This is a court system. You did something wrong. She says Dad, they could never hold me. So that was the only only time I had to be able anybody out.

36:55 Looking back. Do you have any regrets?

36:59 Well, you know like many people say would have could have should have I should have bought more property. We did bike would have quite a bit of property and took a profit after a year or two if we had held longer. Of course, we would have made an awful lot of money, but you know, you can only wear one suit at a time and eat one meal at a time and they only thing is though that many times we we grabbed a quick profit and get out. But thankfully we still on some great property up north and we have we have cleaned the property up and redone the property. It's a commercial peace and it's worth an awful lot of money today and we're not selling which it it's all paid for and the kids will have it someday.

37:43 How would you like to be remembered?

37:47 Did I did the best I could you know, that's the bottom line. I did the best I could I feel like I didn't I never thought about the fact that my kids were turn out so great. Every one of them is a success and they're happy and as I look around and I see what has happened, you know, it's a Well, I not knowing how or why we talked about the fact that we didn't look in any books or figure out we just did the best we could in the kids are not great. We have friends. Unfortunately that the kids don't talk to one another they don't talk to the parents or they're suing each other for four different things and it's a it's a nightmare so consequently, we don't discuss our kids with people that are having problems because we don't want them to feel bad, but we've been very very lucky in that regard and I just think it's because we did the best we could we at a certain point when when my girls so somebody would pick them up with the earring and the long hair with a v.

38:47 I'd say that son-of-a-gun eyes. I don't I don't like this method would say like we did the best we could and now they're on their own and it all worked. They all end up fine.

39:02 Is there anything you've never told me that you want to tell me now?

39:07 No.

39:09 No deal, I'm sorry there isn't is there anything we didn't talk about that you'd like to add?

39:18 I just want to mention the fact that I always like to give the kids confidence and whatever they were doing it with Neal at 15 years old. I was teaching Drive actually about at 14 and 15 at one point. I had to go to Hartford Connecticut and I said come and Neil you'll drive me says but Dad Dad Dad, I don't get behind the wheel and he did drive me to Hartford and New that within a half hour. He'd have enough confidence that he would handle this at what she did perfectly but he always I always try to give each kids confidence. I used to run alongside teaching to ride the bike has a pump pump pump, you know, and then I'd let go and they'd be able to say where I should you donate Meade right riding the bike and stuff. So I always felt that you know, they in their own right each one of them. It is none really the right thing.

40:11 I have very fond memories of this that particular trip to Hartford and thank you for that and and everything. Is there anything else? I know? That's the question before anything else you'd like to add or pass on?

40:29 Well, the only thing that I would say, you know talking about life is you know, there's a very tough times when you're married for especially the 5th 6th 7th year most of the time. That's when people seem to get divorces and if you really love a person and you stay with it, it's all worth it in the end.

40:51 Thank you very much.