Syngman Rhee and Anna Rhee

00:01 My name is Anna Rhee. I'm 46 years old. Today is March 23rd 2008. It's Easter day, and it's about 5:30, and I'm in Richmond, Virginia.

00:20 My name is Sigmund Rhee. I am 77 years old. I am delighted to be here with two daughters and their family. So on this Easter Sunday and have this interview together.

00:40 Just a quick introduction is that my sister and I are here interviewing Our Father for the storycorps project and our father and mother are both from Korea originally grew up in Pyongyang, which is now the capital of North Korea and Dad grew up during the Japanese Occupation of Korea and during the Korean War and came to the United States in the 1950s. So we're going to explore some parts of our father's life stories and Dad. I want to ask you to start with any Reflections. You might have about your childhood that you'd like to share.

01:31 Oh my childhood Reflections are filled with

01:39 The the difficulties of Life Korean people under Japanese rule in those days. I was born 1931.

01:51 And the Korea was under the Japanese Occupation until 1945 at the end of second world war dream of almost half century the Japanese military controlled the government.

02:12 Was determined to just wipe out any identity of a Korean people.

02:22 They forced us to change our family names from Korean family names into a Japanese family names.

02:32 We will not allowed to speak in Korean in school. We had to learn all the subject in Japanese even in playground if we were caught in speaking as you know, as we were on the school playground, we were punished severely if we were speaking in Korean it was that severe it's the just completely trying to wipe out the Korean identity Korean history.

03:12 In the churches and in off a home, I'll parents made sure to teach us that we are not Japanese. We are Koreans and we continue to study Korean language. We were able to syncreon hymns in the church and read the Korean Bibles in the church ministers preach in Korean, which we were not able to do any other places. So the church's role was very important to go back to the office from 1931 on through Elementary and until second year of Junior High School. I learned as a person under the Japanese Occupation and oppression.

04:13 So my memory is

04:17 The difficulties of the difficulties living under such a political and cultural oppressive system my father as a minister.

04:34 Inevitably got into trouble Pandora Japanese rule because of Ministers of the churches will the national leaders the people who led a continual struggle against the occupation. My mother was a school teacher.

05:00 Obviously a well-trained in those days and you are educated. So my parents were very conscientious of what was going on and I'll make sure that we grow up with the the consciousness of the Korean people.

05:27 And to do that was not easy and I don't need because of the material scarcity in those days and trying to raise her children, but Also spiritually mentally to train the children and Rachel Den will not easy task.

05:55 No more than my father somehow. I guess that's a no sense an actual that that's us a son.

06:03 My upbringing was most influenced by my mother.

06:11 As I saw my mother struggling through to feed us and to close though. Sometimes I remember my mother using formal dress Korean dress three year olds that she came with when when she was married to Ringo was a part in making it to into a shirt for children. And so now I vividly saw those and my mother trying to find enough for rice.

06:56 In the countryside and by bringing them secretly in order to feed the children. So I was so appreciative Festival by mother's efforts. I guess. That's why I am I was so grateful and committed to

07:19 Or no or my mother and still do although I have separated from my mother at the age of 19 during the Korean war that sentiment that loyalty that concern for my mother. It's just still very much alive. And it's a part of my basic Foundation Mister who I am.

07:51 Your

07:53 Third generation Christian your grandmother was a Bible woman. Your father was a minister and you're a minister and you're one of the second oldest of seven children. So when your mother was looking for food for the family, it was a lot of mouths to feed you've talked also about the your struggle with Communism in Korea and as a young man how you faced your the conflict that you felt between your Christian upbringing and the Communist Society is very active in the church in my teenager is and

08:45 Because of the

08:49 The inevitable or differences in terms of a ideology between Christianity and communism which we were taught and we will convinced as a Christian.

09:06 It was difficult for the young Christian.

09:15 2

09:18 00 follow the Communist ideology. In fact, we were strongly opposed to communist ideology.

09:27 And it became much more parents when the Communist Regime was established as a communist government and begin to carry on the on policies in which included discrimination or oppression for the Christian churches and the church leadership and that's how I witness. My father's

10:01 Difficulty under communist regime

10:04 Sometimes at the Hiram M below the ministers had to submit the preaching manuscript.

10:13 Before they were able to preach this kind of a control was there.

10:22 And then my father struggled.

10:26 And eventually was imprisoned with other ministers and he became a model for his faith in North Korea.

10:39 And because I was such background inevitably I was also very anti-communists in my convection.

10:51 That's how I left a North Korea in the winter of 1950 when un troops withdrew because of the Chinese troops engagement 1950. That's when we left as a refugee from our home or December 3rd 1950 father was gone already and our family was in chaos.

11:30 My elder brother was already married and he was away with his family. So I was in charge of a family and my mother our mother insisted that is 18 years old and my younger brother was 17 years and I was 19 and he was 17. She insisted that we leave home at least for the time being in order to avoid any kind of the same kind of consequences that our father has faced.

12:14 So the winter over 1950 we left.

12:24 I still remember the day that we left home. It was Winter a snowy day.

12:38 How mother came to the gate and held our hands.

12:45 And said of these words in these difficult days over a war.

12:52 Oh when you leave, who knows what kind of situation to my face we may not even see be able to see each other face-to-face, but remember to pray to God wherever you go and whatever difficulties you face, then we will see each other in Oprah and always wore most precious last words that we heard from how mother as we left.

13:28 From there. They on we did not actually intend to stay away that long but we will

13:40 Kept in the crowds of clouds of crowds of people masses of people escaping to South Korea.

13:55 And once we got on that way, there was no way of return. So one day after we walked and walked to Soul about to be 2 weeks old.

14:13 Then after we came to Seoul

14:20 There was another evacuation from Seoul.

14:26 So we all started working again after 1 week. So in Soul all the way to the southern tip of South Korea.

14:38 Tell through pusan and Swan it took 18 days for us to walk.

14:45 Barely surviving in those cold winter days

14:51 Receiving some rice cookies and rice from those the people as we were going down and the sleeping whatever we could find in The Farmhouse is this all even the stories show places and someone and it will and that's when we we ended up in Chennai and after a week, so

15:35 Oh, we heard that there were people who came to recruit Marines.

15:44 We never heard anything about the Marines in North Korea because we knew about the Army we knew about Air Force we knew about the Navy but we said what is Marine in and

16:01 Someone explain that time the Marine is the toughest.

16:06 Training and also in the world Marine is always tough. The military goes on to the front line and very tough situations and someone hits

16:22 The supply was the best in.

16:27 So is that why not go into Marine? So they were 15 of us who fled the North Korea through sold and we as a group and team stuck together and went all the way down Jenny and we joined to Marine and that's how I became a marine and during those call. I mean they call the days of a training we got only about one month training basic what training is called then

17:07 Then we were shipped out in the front line. It was that kind of situation.

17:16 So around I think it's through the your connection with the Marines as a South Korean Marine that you develop a relationship with the United States and which led to the until you're coming to make here. So can you talk a little bit about how you were introduced to the United States and what that impact have it impacted you in Italy and almost miraculously.

17:50 When I was still in North Korea, I studied English.

17:55 My father taught me English to start with then all of the people the students in school studied Russian. I studied English.

18:10 So when I came down to South Korea, I found the usefulness of English.

18:19 One time that there was an announcement that the Korean Marines were well looking for the other two people who could who who who what translates who would be able to translate the Korean to English text to a Korean what they wanted to do was a training manual from the US Marine.

18:54 To a Korean language so that they would be able to use that for the training of non-commissioned officers.

19:04 So I was selected as one of the translators.

19:09 I thought manual training manuals.

19:15 My brother

19:18 Was also at the first stage of a testing he got on but at the end when only three of us was elected, the first day was 7 people selected in the 03 he was not selected. And so that was the time of serious problem for me to leave my younger brother. They are military order I had to go but now that my younger brother I didn't know what would happen.

20:00 Because it was a during the the training session, but fortunately when I went to the Marines school, they needed someone who could write in order to print the words or hand write handwritten printing system and he was good at that and I talked my officer that time about that so that officer went to the training school before they were you able to finish and shut off the front line got him to that school, and that's when how we got together and we said to each other we should never be separated and

21:00 Anyway, and the English.

21:03 I was also lucky to be selected to be trained in United States Marine School in Quantico, Virginia.

21:17 1953 simply because I was very good at the English.

21:26 I was selected for officers and three nine officers were selected to come to Quantico Virginia to be trained as a special specialty. I was my specialty was in Ottomans the weapons and so on we will train to about 6 months from 53 to 54 and went back to Korea.

22:00 And while I was finishing up my tongue.

22:07 My professor so came from North Korea. Dr. Tassone Park who was president of a university later on studying at the Boston University for his Doctorate. As you said, he went around and say they are some school books, which would give a scholarship for this excellent student. And finally, he got a scholarship and a friend that I met while I was in panic over Virginia US Marine friend Christian officer friend.

22:51 Became my sponsor they had to have a sponsor to make sure that I will not become a public charge.

22:59 And his efforts as a sponsorship and the doctor Parks scholarship. That's how I came to church as a student say you came from Korea to Elkins West Virginia in 1956 as a college student on a scholarship from the College of what was that like for you as somebody from another country in West Virginia in 1956, you know, the people have to use english-as-a-second-language. Obviously. It's a struggle

23:47 But because of my previous experience coming to United States and my determination to do well I was able to carry on my academic responsibilities quite well, and that's how I was able to finish college actually in two years because I have brought her some credit which I gained during the time that I was still serving as a marine attending evening classes. And so I was able to also not too many people have seen the Korean people and some of the church people in the friends used to ask me. How did you get here?

24:46 And then I used to say by bus. I came from the Seattle Washington all the way to see. How did you get here?

25:02 All the places in United States. How did you end up in this small town? And I just explained how grateful I was the fact that these two combinations about the caring people made with my study possible and so on. So I studied very hard and finished College then went on to Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky and finished three years of theological training. They are in, Kentucky.

25:38 You were in Kentucky during a very critical time in American history of the civil rights movement and you've talked about your involvement. And you're calling to be involved. Can you say something about that? Yes, when I finished the Seminary 1960 off to my pastor all responsibilities in application church for three years. I became a campus minister at the University of Louisville.

26:12 As many of us remember in the early 1960s was the height and the time for the civil rights movement and the Vietnam War.

26:26 As a campus Minister, I was involved with a some African-American students and some white faculty members and ministers. We had no black faculty in the time.

26:42 And I'll do my own convictions at any kind of a discrimination because of the race and color was against the will of God with that conviction. I took part in the civil rights movement and I joined the black students in their demonstrations in the city of Louisville for the passage of what we called in the public accommodations ordinance. That is at least in public places discrimination should not take place.

27:24 We marched Horsham along 1963 and Martin Luther King used to come to Louisville quite often because he had a half brother who was a Baptist minister in Louisville. I remember getting involved in civil rights movement and close connection with a person like on Martin Luther King.

27:53 Really gave me a new insight as to what Justice struggle for Justice Means.

28:03 As a Asian I didn't have to get involved in and there are many people who are saying why is a yellow involved in black and white issues challenging me as to the why where you are at all then I used to respond by saying the justice issues is Church's issue. It's God's issue. It's not just the issue for the a white and for the black but it is an issue for all of us and that's why I'm involved as a Christian and so I was a very seriously involved and the

28:46 Martin Luther King gave me a new to challenges which until this day have kept as part of my life and Foundation First was the Civil Rights Movement was not

29:12 So simply to liberate black people from slavery and discrimination.

29:21 It is also to liberate the oppressors to white people who have oppressed.

29:30 Use after years.

29:33 In order that the we may create a new Society we must liberate both the oppressed and oppressors both the black and the whites.

29:50 That was a new insight for me. He wasn't not a struggle to Revenge.

29:58 But by liberating both oppressors and oppressed we may be able to start the new creation of a society lesson that I learned from him was

30:12 The key to creating a new Society rest with the oppressed not with the oppressors.

30:24 He was telling us then that the oppressors have done their things and they had any folder up. I had to nothing photo they can do they just had to wait but oppressed people had a choice either they could revenge or

30:45 They could forgive and the create a new possibilities of what working together including the Forgiveness of the oppressed so that they could create a new society. That was just a totally New Concept for me.

31:06 That must have had something to do with your commitment to reconciliation and peacemaking in particular you're deep convictions to the reunification of Korea. I mean you were possibly among the one of the first people to return to North Korea in 1979. Can you talk something about how you came to that point of wanting to work on the reunification of Korea? That is a very good point. I left North Korea and even when I left Korea in 1956

31:51 I would still filled with the hostility and enmity that I had experienced when I was in North Korea on the communist regime.

32:02 Also, I came to the United States and particularly after I finish the Seminary and struggling with the black people for the justice and the learning from Martin Luther King such lessons. I just to say I always thought myself as oppressed people.

32:27 Dl4 I had no responsibility and key for a new Society reconciliation and that's how they am. I going to Kings teaching prompt made me to get involved in reconciliation work between North Korea and South Korea. It was very difficult thing and very risk getting and very deadly stay in a sense because they were hostility between North and South Korea is real such that anybody even talked about North Korea was considered to be treasonous.

33:05 Birthday Spa awful inspiration. I receive from a person like Martin Luther King pushed me to the task of reconciliation. It was since then lost 30 years. So I have been involved in the reconciliation work between North Korea and South Korea and later on between North Korea and United States. It has not been an easy task. Sometimes I was called the Communist sympathizers or you know, these two ministers and someone but I knew who I was I knew what I was doing in spite of a critical hog a comment or people make it there when you went back to North Korea for the first time in 1979 since you left in 1953, what were you looking for? And and how did you it was pretty much an undercover then? Why did you why did you seek that opportunity?

34:05 And what were you looking for? Actually a Tussauds? It was a 1950 December. I left in 19 was 1978 April I was able to go back it was a trip on planned on expected but it happened when I was in Cairo and I was able to visit my home town come young capital city of North Korea 1978 April.

34:38 Two concerns first concern was Finding about my family my mother and my sisters four of them.

34:47 Secondly through these possibilities of communication and the visiting some possibility of a working a full reconciliation and even church has a mission to reach stablish churches in North Korean those two. Warmind when I went there.

35:14 I was fortunate to find my four sisters when I went there.

35:21 But I was very saddened to learn then that my mother had passed away.

35:32 8 years prior to my arrival, they are knighted 78 my mother passed away December 6th and 1970. I learned then when I went I was very sad, but I was glad that my sister's young sisters who wore 14 10 8 and the youngest one was only 6 months old when I went back in 97 on the when I left home.

36:11 But so 1978 almost 30 years later, you know, you have to add the 30 years to their ages. But to me they were still my little sister's I was very fortunate to be able to be with them for one week and I heard all of the real life struggles. Why don't we were separated from each other?

36:38 And take care of your butt by mother's death.

36:43 That paved the way they're off to my commitments and work for the reconciliation work until this day. I am grateful to say that the last 30 years efforts. Although it was very risky and difficult things the way that South Korea North Korea now engaged openly in the business in the visits of programs of a sport in the world.

37:24 Opening up the ways of reconciliation in pots.

37:29 That we the people like me who dared to believe the reconciliation is possible and equation should be our task Lighting in pots. We haven't contributed to the progress that we have made so far. It's a I just came back from a visit to South Korea. It's amazing how much change there has been between North and South Korea United States and North Korea nuclear issues now being resolved and they're all outside efforts to be able to open up each other and so on so it's worth coming out.

38:19 One of the things that we talked about earlier was your name. Do you have a very famous name? Would you like to share one or two stories about how that name has either helped or hurt you and you know, the cinnamon tree was the first president of South Korea when Korea became independent from the Japanese Occupation and unfortunately, Korea was divided into North Korea and South Korea go Seminary became the president South Korea and Kimmel son became the president of North Korea.

38:56 I understand that I was actually named after this inventory, but the because he was famous during the Korean War many many people remember my name in the United States when I go to some Churches to preach at least away sometime back, you know after church service people shake hands and someone and sometimes some church members come so vigorously and shaking hands when someone and say, you know, I heard about you many many years. I'm so glad to meet you and so on obviously this person is thinking about the beach in Madrid the president of South Korea. I like that kind of warm welcomes.

39:51 That's person to ask me but shouldn't you look later order than you look I said, you know, we are young and they sometimes of them people come ask me. I thought you were did you know and I say like a well, you know, we believe in the resurrection of the body, and how about you so we could all kinds of things sometimes the name because of the well-known name the same Andre. It was wonderful advantage that the people recognize you if you do good things and if you do bad things and you also get to be recognized and someone that there are stories that the friend of mine is trying to call me at the Seminary.

40:51 Louisville Kentucky. Wrong number and his friend said may I speak to Cinnamon Tree and the reply came back and said we don't have any money, but we have a cruise ship. Would you like to talk with her?

41:12 But overall it has been a wonderful blessing particularly soon after the Korean War because of American people's sacrifice has the soldiers who have come in the tide in Korean soil. Here are some nearly 40,000 American young people have died in their life and the graduate school for my doctoral programs and being ordained as a presbyterian Minister and married with a childhood sweethearts who grew up with me in North Korea and having the wonderful family and a $2 and one son.

42:12 Old have growing up. So wonderful way each one and have your children now it just it just full of gratitude.

42:33 What the the lights are most impossible?

42:40 As a refugee

42:44 At the time of a Korean War and what has evolved year after your step by step until coming to United States and studying and being able to serve as a moderator of Oppression Church USA the American denomination, which is Mother Church to the Korean Presbyterian church and being able to serve as a president of National Council of churches in the USA 92-93 which represents 50 million Christians in United States.

43:24 It's almost impossible story.

43:30 But I feel by the grace of God and blessing that I had the privilege of of receiving help and the love from others and the trying to continually somehow pass it on to others who are in need of our help in our love that has been just a wonderful life together.

43:58 Thanks, Dad for recording part of your story with us today. Julian the real Joy.