Ulrike Stroszeck and Ian Stroszeck

00:01 I'm Lucas traffic. I am 54 years old. Today's date is August 18th 2015. I'm at the Lincoln branch of the library. And my partner is my son. I'm the mother here and my name is today's date is August 18th. That's already previously said I'm at the Lincoln branch of our library and I am the Sun so I wanted to ask you so where are you from? I was born in Germany and that's where I come from. That's what I emigrated. So what made you want to come to the United States? That's a long story. I had I came to this country in 1980 when I was 18 years old and I had a i

01:01 Ken to marry a concert violinist that I had met in Germany during a concert and he was actually Chilean but naturalized American and he lived in Buffalo New York. And so after we wrote to each other for about a year or so back and forth and they came to visit me once I married him and I barely knew him. He was also had a good bit older than I was he was 40 and I was 18 or so. My parents had insisted your grandparents had insisted on making sure that I finish high school before I go left and they didn't think it was a terrible idea to be coming here under the circumstances, but I was the most head strong person at that time, and I said you wait.

02:01 Until I'm 18, and when am I 18 there's nothing you can do to stop me. And of course I have this whole romanticized idea about what it is. First of all to be in America, you know, you have all these movie ideas. Secondly. I had also this very idea about what it is to be married to see my parents marriage and that suit just to go smoothly and the for us by five brothers and sisters and my parents always go down. Well, and of course it wasn't a very big age difference so between them and so then I finished my first couple of weeks of May of 1980 and then on May 25th I left.

03:01 By plane after your grandfather had agreed to pay for the tickets and he has allowed me to come to the United States a flu Toronto and then my ex-husband pick me up in Toronto and we drove to Buffalo and it was the first time I've ever been on a plane hit was also the first time I mean I've lived in England before so I had a pretty good working knowledge of the English language, but I hadn't really

03:40 I didn't really understand much American English. So it was really hard for me at first to understand what people were saying. I'm the first couple of days. I was like in North America American English in English difference, like how what were the kind of differences between the two and then in the Deep songs at the end in many cases the British just don't have and to me when I had always had been talking on the phone to my ex-husband. He's know my ex-husband but he background so super easy to understand but then it wasn't very influenced by the American infection.

04:36 And I did have a question. So what was your first experience? I can be experienced when you came to the country besides like the airport was like something that sort of threw you off guard. I guess very first impact is he had a string quartet play for me at the airport. He had his students ready to play a string quartet for me since I was like, I'm an 18 year old and 4 years old and it was kind of strange impressive and then we drove back and then of course in Toronto Airport in LA

05:20 Add one suitcase I was at dinner. And so then the next thing coming out of the airport. This is huge car. That was not a new car. If somebody had never been and never even seen a car that size would like a photo as a bottom and then at the border between Canada and at the border, I'm so amazed at not having to fill any paper forgot before I left through the Embassy Suites the American Embassy I had to fill out a health certificate. I had to have a lung X-ray. I had to have a TB test at I had to have any number of this. I don't even remember all of them.

06:20 And he was also the embassy and you could only go to certain doctors that what time do this and that was before you got to the whole bunch of papers with me including my x-rays and everything. Nice. If you have to have this ready when you enter the country and I enter the country and nobody wanted to see my parents before the time when you know, when when Homeland Security but up, but at the time and had found this stupid. News Gazette good at organizing and he had found this stipulation in American and still to this day. No. Not quite sure how he did it, but I had a green card within a month of the arrival and the reason why I did is because he

07:19 Add found a closet Catalyst lawyer friend of his to find a class in American immigration law that was meant to be fertilized. And that said if I marry a German woman or a French woman after this is my necklace for the post-world War II era if they marry then and I want to bring these wipes to the United States. They can do that under this umbrella as long as they get married within 30 days of the of the setting foot on American ground.

07:52 So we got married on June 22nd, and I don't really know if I would have married him had I had it not been for that. So if I hadn't known I can I can only become if I have a GI or anyting how did that happen? I don't know how he did. He was he was amazingly resourceful and he had ways of he was also very charming and very convincing that never hurt and I had literally just to sign my name. That's all I had to do and it's not only that but it was a green card that was never expire so that I was completely surprised by his self. So

08:52 Then with my father did back in Germany is a pound of me marrying him he felt it because he was a public servant he failed in his duty to officially notify the state of Bavaria that I was now gone and no longer resided in Germany, which meant that I was never allowed to vote in my home country. I never allowed to vote here either because I never did become a citizen and permanent resident. Okay, mainly because up until 2004 or so Germany. Germany did not allow dual citizenship. And finally they when they allowed it. It was just like a mountain of paperwork and petitions here and patience and I'm like, okay we don't have time right now.

09:49 Impressions and then of course

09:52 Having only seen him in concert mode and then having never experienced even like his personal personal life or is this way of being

10:06 I had to adjust you know, how am I going to live for? You know as this married woman and he had a very his family lived in New Jersey if parents both in an area of New Jersey where Andrew of Jersey City where they didn't need to speak in English so result they didn't speak in English or hardly any although they both worked and so all of a sudden I found myself not funny in Spanish and communicate with his family, right? Because whenever he was talking with his brothers or his sister as I'd like to be excluded that was a first for me because having grown up speaking both French and German

11:02 I never felt excluded any where are you? I knew what everybody was saying and then his parents were super nice and everything, but it was down to New Jersey that I found out that he had been married twice before. I didn't know that I didn't answer me but

11:38 He also asked me not to tell my appearances and they also didn't know how Okay Okay. So this was like a whole, you know, strange thing not to be able to tell my parents and I really I really didn't consider that I would tell them anyway, I could still see you tell me to do that. And so okay. I guess I better not kind of just follow blindly innocence a little bit and I was shy at the time that you might not think so.

12:22 I was pretty sheltered growing up, you know from everything. Basically. I just so many experiences. I never even though I've lived in France and England before I never had exposure to in a very important for them for important people in it and hear all of a sudden. I was supposed to go to after concert receptions with like the mayor of town and all these important people that I sort of shocked you that like very fast kind of change from, you know, being more of a normal person to just suddenly knowing all these really high important people obsessed with your grandparents.

13:22 And my ex-husband look like

13:31 I'm dumb like a formal sign of respect, but I guess either.

13:41 But it was kind of weird. And so anyway, it's it's it's it's also sings those kinds of things mended whenever we went out somewhere didn't matter to the grocery store or to the go to a party like that after what they would get instructions on how to do it. Right. That's got to be very stressful to nobody has to be in certain restrictions on how you do things, but I never really questioned.

14:10 Thankfully dtive that I just could have had well if you married and then stinks weren't going to let you know.

14:18 Particularly because it was you know, you truly removed from Buffalo within the first year we moved to Akron, Ohio. Okay, because he's going to drop his Consciousness in Akron, Ohio and started my studies there and that's already know. All I did was study. We didn't have a TV and that's because he just you know what she was traveling a lot and then though he would rather take when you and don't worry what you did a lot during the semester also, he would rather take the car to the airport and leave it in the airport for 3 weeks then let me have the car because he figured

15:02 That can't be a good thing. That's too much Independence. How did you react to not having as much Freedom as you might have thought or did it just not occur to you in Akron relief in his high-rise building not far from campus. So basically I was grocery store. And so then I got people around me not sorry noticing things namely my Spanish teacher who was also friends who became friends with us. And so one time my Spanish teacher

15:38 Asked that I come to us and we were showing the adventures of Rabbi Jacob at That's a classic French movies with really wonderful and he is very cold night. And it was it was snowing and snow was already lining up to your thighs and my Spanish teacher said after the you know, why don't I drive you home and I had gotten strict instructions not to do not to do it so late and live alone here and you're an addition with you shouldn't be walking and I said fine and then without any warning

16:21 She said in Spanish to me given to CNN trunnell how well he trained you.

16:28 I don't like that was an eye-opener for me.

16:31 I went home sinking.

16:37 You know about a human being so you didn't notice you didn't really notice the restrictions like they didn't affect you as much until that moment, right? Yeah. I mean, it's just that it never was a matter of fact, there was no repelling there any I don't know why but from that day forward. I was thinking wait wait. Wait, that's what you do dogs. That's what you do. Here is the same word apply to me as a human being like the way that it made me think that there was something wrong with the Spanish teacher and he

17:23 And you know, she was just trying to get at me somehow and then I said no that's not how he said it and then I started questioning those things that I didn't question before.

17:36 And then

17:40 It is things I studied all I did I went to the library. I went to my house and into my classes. That's what I did for almost 8 years.

17:52 But during that time we moved in from Akron to Columbus, Georgia where he had gotten another conducting job and so in Columbus, Georgia, that was a culture shock. Like I like Noah's it because it was not just only the most I can understand the language again with the different dialect.

18:20 But then also I started looking at Social circumstances and he River in this very privileged kind of circle and the chair of his Department was like if it's a pretty straightforward about saying, you know

18:38 Okatie your Hispanic so that they could write off the Hispanic Coda on the hiring practices and my ex-husband didn't really respond to that bright light on. Why didn't why didn't you say something? So it's kind of weird that somebody would say that that's because they don't want to hire African-Americans and if I fit into that category to have a cold or something going on at this isn't the 80s so much more in-your-face than in the North in the North Ridgeville. It was pretty I thought it was pretty did you still get her to I mean down Dudley African Americans living on the other side white people.

19:37 Associate can I make a difference between those two groups and there's hardly any interaction. I have to say later. I move to North Carolina that was much more interaction between the different ethnic groups. Then when we came to Rochester MN love you going into first grade saying mommy, where did all the other people go different they forgot but anyways, so

20:12 Then came at me Columbus, Georgia was Justin an exception not let me go to Every to study because I was the closest go to university. Okay, so I ended up going to Auburn University and that was in Alabama. And so I had to commute 45 minutes one way and against the time zone in order to get there and back every single day of the week, but I did it. I got my Master's Degree and once I had my Master's Degree, I

20:44 Applied to all kinds of different universities to get my PhD and

20:50 I applied to UNC Chapel Hill. I apply to Yale. I apply to University of Pennsylvania different kinds of places and ye gave me a full scholarship to go to Yale University full ride.

21:06 And my ex-husband said no because if you go there. In the nose people are much more aggressive you we will be bored because you find somebody else.

21:16 And so is it fine and then also they gave me a scholarship at UNC Chapel Hill and so I took it and that that's a driving distance. He figured he could drive and then within two years after that we divorced and it was kind of inevitable.

21:40 And should have had gotten.

21:43 An idea of what what all this experience has really meant so that so that didn't

21:50 I didn't think it was it was normal that he would in the first year at Chapel Hill. He would he would call me. I remember you go to the library and you come back and you know, I'll call you when I get home. Even though my parents are never that strict even that I did for a while and then I realize now this is just not for me the easiest thing really, I never expected it like that. I couldn't understand the whole time and I still have all those letters. I kept writing happy letters home. And I'm studying and all these things that didn't really matter. Even if it wasn't entirely true to visit several times and it seemed to me that everybody was kind of acting weirdly.

22:50 What's the easiest thing in the state of Georgia you can divorce within six months you're done. If even if one person doesn't agree you can even do I love my husband said you know how to be I know you don't have money you receive let's get the same lawyer. We had the same lawyer and friend and then he took me out for lunch. And he said what did I do wrong?

23:19 After the fact that beforehand

23:26 Down to Georgia little counterintuitive, don't you think?

23:34 Enough. You never know. You never understand it. So it doesn't really matter. I would have tried to explain and so that was so

23:44 My means wait, I told him was he signed all the papers in my I told him in January when I came back from Germany over the winter break and it was like everybody was telling me, you know, you've to do something it was the first time I was alone in Germany is just can't keep going like this and there it is. That's true. You know, I can't and so I am back a couple of days before he did January 2013 impact Journey 25th and

24:25 He came to Chapel Hill like the same day if you want to translate and I thought to myself if I don't say today, I will never say it.

24:36 Set breakfast the very next day. I said I want a divorce and there's nothing you can do about it.

24:43 And he looked at me very strangely.

24:50 I didn't know mixture of Android than that so suspicious and he said what's his name?

24:55 Oh is if there was someone else? Okay, and you know what all that time? That's the one thing that really hadn't occurred to me.

25:05 She doesn't know me at all. I am so right in doing this. It made me feel a lot better for you to know who I am.

25:20 After which she then I said you were I would like you to move and we were living in an apartment over there. We have to because in Georgia yet gotten a one-year appointment at the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill as a contractor. And so then he moved it. Who's he was fine this time and

25:44 I thought when we were sitting at the breakfast table.

25:50 I thought he was not understand. He will never understand and he and I was afraid he would get really angry. But still I said Tom.

26:01 My Tom

26:02 The first thing that came to mind alright, so because I realized in the moment that you would never understand.

26:19 Anything else? This is the thing that will make him go away. Basically almost to just keep him and he came back a couple of days later to pick up Dolly sings. I had already moved into a different apartment. He was like that he understood so then he came back. It was amazing.

27:00 In March of that year he came by to pick up something had forgotten at my house. And and so he was talking.

27:09 I mean, he's a dumb so you don't control composition. How are you doing? So now I'm doing great and he says so

27:18 I want that house. Going. Does Tom. Oh, yeah, that's over. That's the

27:41 I think I can forgive you for that.

27:46 And then I said the first thing I said to the last thing I want you to do is forgive me. I could just picture of another 15 years of him for giving me really angry and that's the only time he ever hit me but then he left and then we have to tell I went to Europe and I had to tell you open my door.

28:16 And they you know, so good at making conversation on the way home from the airport and pick me up and back by the way. I hadn't told anyone but disrespect anything because he went to visit them in April. Nothing had happened at all. He was on tour Brewing between Spain and if I forget where I was and then he stopped by and visit them stayed with him for the week never came up in conversation that it was so so I thought you were going to say that the first thing I thought I've been so obstinate and so it kind of looks like one.

29:15 So any help said mama papa sit down. I got to tell you something.

29:25 I'm getting a divorce with just sign the papers and that's on a matter of when it's being sent to us.

29:32 And your oppa looked at your grandmother and he said, get the champagne.

29:45 Biggest relief as it's not as if they knew all along with a just wanted you to figure it out yourself and all these other things that they told me after the fact in like wow when I was in it, I didn't realize you were you were you kind of were you kind of confused why they didn't tell you this earlier when he was there.

30:12 Yeah, and I think for them that was a matter of respect, you know, they did not want to interfere plus don't forget this man is super charming. And so anyway, that's that's the way it is and I had two more years to finish my Ph.D. So then I said no I am not going to interrupt this now. I'm going to study right back to finish my studies. So that was then I finished my studies all together in 1993 and they couldn't go back from because once you have your PhD here, it doesn't necessarily imply. Otherwise, I'd let you know in Europe.

31:05 So if you're not okay, then I'll State and then I got a job right away and that it worked out. Well and then

31:15 You guys coming on 1998 and I wasn't married at the time and this was of course.

31:23 A huge deal another one of those phone calls when I said Mama Papa's it down.

31:31 And I told them that I was 5 months pregnant and they said that time your grandfather said I have to pay your mother know just kind of Panda mean. Well, you know, I was thinking

31:48 I'm a twin myself you guys at Twin. Yeah, so I'm a twin myself. I'm an identical twin and she lives in Athens Greece.

32:04 When I saw on the on the screen that I had twins, I thought I was having twins as like me and my sister right? I'm heading me but he told me that it was going to be hard or how hard it was going to be to have twins by yourself.

32:23 Then I might have done something about it, but I just decided no, this is I want to be like them after you were born. This was pretty hellish. But they are you a long letter saying here are the services that you would be eligible for in Europe, please think about coming back. You can't handle it by yourself. You cannot do it. I still have it. It's like you get parental child care free money for the children themselves in Africa.

33:06 Yeah, then I would be stuck there and I would be you know back in and your hometown. I came from Indian away. This is the last thing I wanted to do, but I'll stay and I want to be and I thought you know in Europe even though they have all these social services and everything is you would still have the stigma. Of course, I guess in the United States is less and less I guess a parent or not are there. I mean I think about how many times you hear on the news single mother and that's the derogatory term, but I thought I don't care what anybody else.

33:54 You can think what you want. It's not me but I ended was I was incredibly lucky. College wherever Elon college they were so exact know where in Europe would have gotten a bit maybe in Sweden, but the college did super nice and a butt.

34:21 After I mean you were born December 18th, I was back in the classroom on February first teaching full-time. So are there was not much time at 2 to let him you were out for 3 months and get to know each other even as we moved Upstate again for 15 years longer almost anywhere else. It sounds like this is home. And then when I when I remarried because impact because I thought that it would seem to be a whole family for the info.

35:14 Snd came here here here here. We both are working at Duke University and then he was denied tenure and then came here and got a job at U of R & R.

35:28 We got married and I quit my job at Duke and came up here as well. And then I started looking out for tablets I end up getting that drop at RIT, which is great. What sort of in terms of coming here? It wasn't as if I had put a pinpoint pain on the map and settle this kind of life. I still decided to stay because by that time you were in such a result of contact. We don't understand in Europe that you weren't such a good school district that I couldn't take you out. I could have never paid for a private school.

36:16 Do for Brighton school does just couldn't have afforded it. And you know, I don't know and then makes you afraid of of doing a disservice to your children do what's best for the family as well. And and of course a job at all, right? He's good so that I can no complaints there. And so that make it made it. That's it. That's enough.

36:40 But let me ask you this. So I know that they were different culture like different culture shock. So I guess that you got when you move from Akron and when you move from Jordan and now here did you get a different kind of feeling when he went from North Carolina to hear did you feel like there was where the stigmas different were there different besides like language obviously, but we lived in the sky and I was more of a matter actually in North Carolina is 20-20-20 you no more honest and you never felt like an outsider. Where's when I got here. I felt like an outsider which is strange because the difference between those two areas should be just reverse, but it wasn't I never

37:33 I heard the question where you from as many times as when I moved to Rochester 10 times a day. Is it really that's what I remember at the beginning of this conversation when you were when you were saying I was born in Germany. I was like, oh she's going to say the same thing every other person that I want to answer something else. I want to say like, maybe it's because they don't know the difference. That's the strangest thing and I'm not quite the right to be dreaming not quite right asking to be friend not quite the right accident anywhere and then either category and put in a deeply need to know with inside themselves, like the truth feels like almost an aggression to me because the moment a spec advise you from

38:37 I mean, I never had that feeling until I got here. It makes the moment you open your mouth and Outsider and I think they were so many International people in North Carolina in Georgia if it's different I sing because I was introduced to everybody and and this is sort of like a different kind of but then you know, I think the cultural difference because truck between Georgia and North Carolina was because in between North Carolina and because of North Carolina, literally, even our neighbors move just as an example when our neighbors moved now in Georgia when he was moved they would know and we didn't hardly know these people they would knock on our door and they said

39:31 Oh, by the way, we're moving but we just want to let make sure that you know that we won't have any Norwegians moving in.

39:40 Access no idea what they meant by that and my husband is Yaya and he pulled me to the side and he said they tried not to say African-American. So they're going to say Norwegian since it just because it seemed as if they act like they know they're they're being racist and they and they try to avoid it by using something completely different. That's wow. That's it. That's really weird. And it was like right there at the surface, right? But then it disappeared. I think because Columbus Georgia Houses Fort Benning, they were pretty tolerant the school of the Americas Latinos. Okay, but not so of African-Americans the kind of racism that you saw in Georgia. Did you say that that was how would you say it was different from what you've experienced in North Carolina and also,

40:40 Sew-in in Rochester. I think it's there but I don't think that there is this lack of contact between the groups. I mean, whatever the event you go to North Carolina or in that area of North Carolina. I should say there are groups represented that usually African Americans you see American Indians, you know, what whatever cultural group

41:04 And enjoy today. Just white people because I really don't know the same people that I know that I knew in Georgia, you know, like the operation in the society as I do here. I mean, I'm here I'm just saying we have to meet people from all backgrounds, but because we want to not because it's automatically there. So, yeah, I guess if I had to stay

41:42 To another immigrant any other immigrant? Where should you live? I would say be careful.

41:50 What you choose into something that has mopolitan rather than an area that's that's more isolated. It's really good.

42:08 In the United States, I would say exactly what I've just said, let me know if we show that this makes us he was so you so you have an easier time adjusting if if it were to Rochester specifically I would say get to know the the town first of all over the Orient yourself and then make sure that you can find social environment that integrate people because depending on who you are, you know, usually separated to hear you going to be you know, if you're if you're African-American or dark skin do whatever, you know, you you're not automatically accept it in in the areas that outside but if you are, I don't know Ukrainian you are in Irondequoit. If you are certain that so raven Gates if you lose your kind of in Brighton and I like that very specific groups here, and I don't think

43:04 I think you should find places to where these groups interact like the YMCA in various places, make sure thank you.