Abraham Brawer, Lynnette Brawer, and Todd Paler

00:03 My name is Lynette Brower. I am 47 years old today is June 16th, 2013. We're in San Francisco and we are here for me to interview my father.

00:18 My name is Todd Taylor. I'm 47 years old today's date is June 16th, 2013. We're here in San Francisco and I'm here interviewing my father-in-law Abraham Brock.

00:33 My name is Abraham Brower. I'm 83 years old.

00:37 Today is June 16th, 2013. I am in San Francisco and I'm the father of Lynette in the father-in-law of Todd were going to interview me.

00:52 So Dad I thought

00:55 If you've lived a very interesting life, but I think a lot of what's most interesting. Perhaps is your journey to America, so I thought we would start at the beginning and maybe you could tell us about where and when you were born.

01:13 I was born in Belgium Brussels Belgium on June 14th 1930.

01:19 And where were your parents from Portland which at the time was part of Russia?

01:28 Casitas are a little hard to pronounce with my father was born in Crasnick and my mother was born in sandomierz.

01:40 And how did they end up in Brussels probably was subject to be drafted by the Polish Army and being an orthodox Jew it was not something that he wanted to do. So he decided to leave Poland and that the first went to Austria and he

02:01 He took part in the program you are planning to go to emigrate to Palestine at the time, but eventually he changed his mind or things happened. And he moved to Belgium on his way from Poland to Austria. He had met my mother was working in the store in Galicia, which at the time was part of Austria Galicia Poland, which was the time was part of Austria. They met and apparently liked each other they talk to me for 4 days and then my father left and badal to each other for years.

02:46 And after four years my father brought her to Belgium and they got married in 1925 Antwerp Belgium.

02:56 And what about siblings?

03:06 Miscarriage once and she had a daughter that was born Ten Years After me but she only lived four months. She was a victim of the conditions under which we lived when the Germans invaded Belgium.

03:25 And how old were you when the Germans invaded Belgium on June 14th?

03:31 1940 on my tenth birthday. My mother told me that the trim inside just to Paris the capital of friends had just surrendered to the Germans that we we're already occupied by the Drone.

03:48 I was 10 years old.

03:51 So what's a a favorite childhood memory?

03:56 You should have given me a few months to think about that.

04:04 Well, you know I was I had to until until 1942. I have the relatively happy childhood. I had friends my age. We lived in we lived in the city. That was not a big city and we lived in the suburb and they wear her medals nearby and Harrison we would go and play and I we would ride bicycles and we would fight and we would

04:31 Laugh and we would have a good time. It was a good good time for me. And until we left the town when we left on things change complete. But until then it wasn't that was a good good memory foam. And what what town is it you're talking about the real Jarvis and the other one is called the trial of walk Charleroi the boat in bedroom.

05:05 And you moved there from Brussels when you were little my parents move to Brussels from Brussels to very when I was I think three years old too. I don't I don't have any memory of pretzels.

05:18 And I have a very faint memories of the first years in the rear. But then until we leave there until I was eight years old and then we move to Charlevoix where we stayed until 1942.

05:34 And how did your parents earn a living?

05:37 My father had the very

05:41 A distinguishable profession he was used to clean Stripes. Where later used to make sausage and frankfurters.

05:52 It was a profession that had been in his family for several Generations.

06:00 And no he under the under giving.

06:04 How about the white one time we were very proud not very but we were prosperous because he was like sport most of his.

06:12 Most of his production was exported to Germany. We try to use a great consumer of sausage and frankfurters and all that stuff then in 1937 that thing will 36 Hitler for bad thing for station or anything because he wanted everything to be dedicated to the war effort. War preparation. So my father lost his biggest source of income because I couldn't send anything to Germany and the market in Belgium was not big enough to sustain them. So he had to look for work and he work for the you work as an employee in federal Schroeder houses in Belgium, or we'll always doing the same thing.

06:58 Cleaning leather stripe of intestines whatever you want to go.

07:04 And your mother did she work at all my mother not until 1941 that she was a housewife. She used to have my phone.

07:13 . Okay.

07:17 Used to

07:20 When my father was self-employed he had to work place next to her and she used to help him unload because he was he was alone during part of the year. It would hire some young people to to help which parts of the world but mostly he was doing it himself. So when they were shoulders with things like that, my mother would go down to the to the shop and work with him.

07:50 End

07:52 But otherwise sweet, but after the beginning of the war when things got really bad for us. She's started selling she would go to the barracks of the German soldiers and settled in sweaters and rollers and underwear and Landry and things like that.

08:14 I know it was it was a remarkable that she would do that. I don't when I think about it today. I still shudder all the things that could have happened, but she was never so she always do that to me and then 1942 after 1942. Everything was

08:33 1942 was the year that the German journalist change the living conditions were subject to being deported. We had to hide when it was completely different.

08:45 So tell us more about that in 1942 the Germans issued the orders.

08:54 You know, most of the Jews maybe 18 90% West to report to a town called Marlene m a l i n e s bedroom, which was the launching point for trains going to 222 Easton to Eastern Europe to Poland to Germany.

09:17 And then the people were told to present themselves voluntarily to Daddy stations with with the clothing and food for 48 hours and that they were going to be resettled to work in Eastern Europe.

09:32 My father who had lift World War one and you were how how governments behave in Wartime didn't trust them. He decided he was not going to go volunteer.

09:46 Butter to islay the suspicions of our neighbors and all that. We joined all those people who are going most most of the Jewish people in our town decided to go voluntarily they went to the station and got on the train and we did the same thing, but we got off the train stopped in Brussels. So we got off in the train continued to mile in and of those people who went on that train to Madden less than 2% survived. All of them were killed by the drums. So we landed there. We we got off in Brussels and we stayed with the

10:23 With a relative of ours for a few went for a while and then we can stay there anymore because of

10:30 Different reasons so we had to move from one place to another for about my parents for about two years and I went I was with them for a while and then I went to the so-called known occupied zone of France which at the time was already occupied because the Allies that landed in Algeria and the Germans moved to the to the Mediterranean to stop fearing that the Allied the Americans and the British would try to blend in France. So the whole area was occupied by the German Army, but that the time they still had the so-called autonomous.

11:12 Government with French Marshal with taking over the government.

11:19 And that's where I stayed for about 8 months and then I went back to Belgium.

11:24 And then I was

11:27 I was ready.

11:30 Pretty unhappy because I was a 13 year old boy and I had to stay home all day occur. When you go to school I can go out to the street. So I didn't listen I would go out anyway, and then my parents would get skin editor. You know if the police or somebody saw us they would arrest me and them so they got in touch with us Jewish underground and they

11:53 They found a place for me to be with a false name and

11:58 Inner in the center. It's called us and I told him what they had children who have lungs lung diseases where was kept their to they wasn't open this those days and they was the only way they treated some of them had tuberculosis and the only way they treated that was to give you what you in the place. Where will you put the rest and try to feed you enough protein. That's and some some medication but it was not was not curing it while it was just

12:35 Limiting the pain or whatever

12:39 And I was there for eight months until September 1944 when the British.

12:45 Finally came and liberated Belgium liberated Brussels

12:51 And it was very a very giddy time. Everybody was very happy people. We're singing in the streets.

12:58 And that wasn't in 1946.

13:03 1946 Saturn

13:06 My father

13:09 My father who had the wandering Gene

13:15 Went with friends some of his friends were going to Palestine at the time. It was still not his right and he he decided to go and say goodbye to them at the railroad station and he told my mother was very early. So you don't have to get up now when I come back we can have breakfast together stay in bed. And the next time she saw him at thing was 15 months later because he decided to travel together with his friends first two friends and then to London today to Israel.

13:46 Puscifer for reason that I'm I'm not sure I understand my mother accepted it and she had to work. My father was not a Belgian citizen. He was a

13:58 You had no no no nationality because no citizen Citizenship because he had lost his polish that doesn't chip and he never became a Belgian Citizen and he left without papers or when you wanted to come back to the belgians. Didn't want to Belgium didn't want to let him back in So my mother have to work for months going from one office to the other and

14:21 Send out papers and finally was able to get him a permit to come back to Belgium while he was there. I decided I wanted to go to I was not doing very well in school. I was praying too much rupee, and I don't know I was a restless so I decided to go to

14:42 Palestine

14:44 And I joined the group was going they have papers I didn't but I got there. I got two friends and then they told me they went on the boat and I was

14:55 I didn't have the guts to just walk into the boat all the people that without papers but I didn't have the guts. So I stayed and then I had to wait and to a Jewish organization and arranged for me to join a group of displaced persons from Germany for whom they had traded the boat to go underground Palace. That's what we did and we were we were over a thousand people on the very small vote for every heart condition and because they didn't want to lose because the British if they if they saw us they would have arrested US and taking the boat and they didn't want to lose the boat. So off the coast of Cyprus State transfer this from that boat, which was very small to another word. That was four times smaller.

15:53 403 24 hours to Tuesday. They had to go see about that. Dude. Wanted to lose the smaller one.

16:01 And it was easy cuz they would tell us that we cannot or get up at the same time on one side because the boat that capsized we had to you know, they they would give us signs when we can get up and when we have to sit down.

16:18 And there was no food, but that was a very short trip. And we West cited by the British Navy in the surrounding the ship and they took us into the harbor of Haifa.

16:30 Tripa, we thought they would let the dog. They told me told they would let us get off and you know and keep us on but they put us on three other boats in the port of Haifa.

16:43 Like, you know, we thought they might take us back somewhere we can because after this only two other boats with allowed to stay there all this way to take him to Cypress all the ships that came after us with the immigrants illegal immigrants were taken to Cyprus and they wear their until the the state was proclaimed. I think it made 1947.

17:06 Anyway, this is getting very detailed. I don't know how to make it to little.

17:15 So did you see your father when you got to my father got himself hired as the food we went up fed by the British. We were fed by the population in the organization to my father got himself higher than bringing food to those ships. And that's all we saw me and we had did you know that your father at did you have you made contact with your father prior know how he did know because I am a nurse.

17:54 Israeli News who came on the boat. They allowed Israeli nurses in one of one of them was a volunteer from a very wealthy family, but she did that for her.

18:07 4Runner pro bono, so I told her it when my father lived and if you could please tell him the time and she did.

18:15 And then

18:18 So if he came and we saw each other a few times and then they sent us from there. We went at in 10 days on those but it was not like we were when we were traveling, you know, we will stand stand stealing we had three meals a day and we could take showers which during the trip was impossible and then after 10 days they transferred us to wear to a Military Base outside Haifa gold athlete ATL it that's where they kept older older immigrants are illegal immigrants until they would reach to the quote that they had a quote about 1,500 entry permits a year or month or something like that. So we had we were there like

19:03 We got there in April and we were there until July birthday was on the ground and we will wish we slept in Big Bear attacks like 40 50 60 people, but that's and after that. I joined the keyboards.

19:27 When I stayed for two years and then at the end of the two years I the world that when Israel was

19:36 Flames and there was a war and I join the Army.

19:41 And I wasn't dummy for about 10 months.

19:45 And then I was

19:48 I was released. I'm sorry.

19:51 I was released and I went back to the keyboard.

19:56 What's up, at that time? Can you give us a feel for how the relations were with the Jews who were already there and the our population and was there already tension and that time I'll tell you the truth at that time.

20:16 Because I was inside the Jewish people switch was in the middle of the Jewish area. I didn't have much contact and I didn't see matter what but we know Arabs with Arabs and we were Jews and they was all kinds of the time the big business at the time the big problem for the Jews West to buy land.

20:38 Arabs Who Sold land where

20:44 Persecuted to blame by dead by the other are. So, I know that there was one man who used to come to the walkie, but he wasn't he was like a middleman. He was a it was a broken he would get some Arab people to sell their land and it would sell it to the Jews officially they will sell it to him and he would send it to the Jews eventually. He got you got killed by other option resent it is but that's okay and then we go after the war after the keyboards in the cables were used to work. We were we had classes 3-4 hours a day and then we would work for hours. Wednesday. That was our maybe we would work in the morning get up very early to go to work for an hour before it get too hot then come back and have breakfast.

21:44 Can go back to the field or whatever until lunch shop after lunch. We would have classes with.

21:52 Given that we had gotten up very early many of us with doze off during the glasses and afternoon at the time where you were you

22:09 Was it was there a sense in going to the kibbutz and being on the kibbutz of being in the early part of something that happened to me. It was nothing ideological choice or anything. But what I'm wondering is is when you were being when you were in school and you know that you was getting educated for 3-4 hours and so forth was there and it was there an ideology that was being promoted to solutely I want us to stay in the kibbutz go to go out and found and open our own found around keyboard. That was that was that's why they didn't they would get some subsidy from the Jewish agency, but they they may not interest in getting groups like that was to

22:56 Try to make them to come to boots lovers. Okay, boots people. They didn't succeed too. Well.

23:04 After after a while you go ahead. So at the time was there that you know, this was was was there a it was very was a socialist place is real and I would imagine that at that time to there was tension between the world of capitalism as as America and Russia being a communist and then he was Israel and Israel at that time. Was it necessarily gunco America and it was it was there was something I know that there were a lot of Jewish socialist and Jewish Communists to the left of center in the parliament of the time. We left left of center.

23:52 And you know, not only that there was some strong ideological pressures. They made sure they made me join the left of left Center body and then

24:06 At one time we will we will prove Russia more than true America out of a group and most of the kibbutz. We're like that except no boots at 3. They went 3-3.

24:26 Currents in the kibbutz. That was one of the biggest one was

24:31 Social Democrat not socialist not socialists and not pro-russia. Right and Ben Gurion was the leader of the party and he mean when he knew that you needed America to do anything, but then we we belong to another one that was called the United Workers Party or something like that was left of center. And then there was a Communist party, but we will not stay blessed day. We're not allowed. I had I had I'm not proud of that. But at one time I was a secretary of the kibbutz and I had to expel eight members because they had voted for the Communist party and reasoning was that

25:23 The kibbutz was subsidized and ruled by the government and the Communist Party didn't recognize the government of Israel. I told that Israel should belong Palestine who belonged to the Arab student thing that it should belong to the Jews. So for that reason we told that they were they stayed in the cables and voted for the Communist they wear in contradiction time, but it happened anyway, so I stayed in the kibbutz until I get one to do to tell me I want came back from the Army at 1 to know Turkey boots and then like everybody else. Were you in combat? Oh, yes. Oh, yes. I wasn't I wasn't the first Ward they call it and he's ready to go to The Liberation War.

26:18 How do people have different name generator Daddy's house city is called the day of disaster is sometimes but but but you actually was shooting a routing that but we had won the horror War last at the you know, it was more cease-fires than than than actual fighting. I mean the whole thing the real War lasted like 2 16 days or 18 days, but that one time New Jerusalem, we had I had a friend of mine to friend of mine Wicked connection.

26:57 And I felt that was running and I tripped and I fell on barbed wire and I couldn't I couldn't walk anymore. So I had to be helped to come back today, but then I was not really one. That. That was I couldn't work and then

27:16 And that wasn't in love with me again May of 1948 to get on the to get on the leaderboard. You have to be 16, and I was 15 at the time. So I II II Men myself one year old and that haunted me until I came to America because all my papers weight of one year when I asked for a birth certificate from Benjamin truth that he is different so I had to get witnesses to watch me.

27:54 So so you have been through all of this in terms of escaping from the Nazis and then you were here and you are part of the birth of this nation and this, you know, theoretically this dream of these people of 2004 over 2000 years and you are a part of making that happen. Did you were you at that time and fused with the enthusiasm of Zionism in the state know the times original I was I was a good Israeli citizen, but that was not you know, the fact is you know,

28:31 The people who were born there are the people who had come as you 30 young as children had more more of a feeling I had family in this right my father had

28:41 The string of cousins first cousins who lived in Israel to wear if you know who had come just before the war. He had a brother in Israel. I don't know but it was just a place that you know, I accept so I don't know if we have that much time, but the eye

29:02 After a while, I got tired of living in the keyboards to cuz the keyboards they don't deserve to get the salary you get that. I was getting at the time the equivalent of $20 a year for a year photo of vacations with. You could get a bus to Tel Aviv and sleep on the beach. That's what about the way you could do.

29:23 And and besides that I was at the time I was 18, and I wanted to see more of the world and my parents had them while I wasn't his writing my parents emigrated from Belgium to Bolivia South America.

29:40 And then eventually we were corresponding in this is why don't you come and join us, you know, and that for me it didn't matter if they had said they had said Haiti. I would have gone. You know that she TT the word c a different place.

30:03 Eventually, I first I live to keyboards and I work for 2 years as a

30:08 Madras an instructor in the in the in the Children's Village and went to school and I was I was not a teacher but I was an instructor that means I had a group of boys and girls about holding my baby and I was in charge of them because I would sleep in the end in the say I had my own room but that slept in the same room with them in the same building and I was you know, I would be with them when they got there when they showered when they when they when they lived in when they went for breakfast and think they went to school when they went to school. I did something else when they came back from school. I was there again to be with them when make sure they do their homework. Make sure they take a shower holder things that

31:00 And that's what I did for about one and a half year.

31:05 And then

31:07 I had applied for.

31:10 I had applied was very complicated, I couldn't go back to Belgium either because I had left before I was 16 and in Belgium at the time the law has trained by the time even if you were born in Belgium if your parents were not that urgent citizens.

31:30 Bottom pants with no Belgian citizen you had to

31:36 You had to hop to you had to choose at 16. If you want to be your parent's citizenship or Belgian citizen, but you can only could only do that when you were 16 and I left when I was I left in April.

31:51 1946 I would have been 16 in June but I left the neighborhood. So I never made it and because of that. I've never been a Belgian citizen.

32:01 So I had to I became an Israeli Citizen and I was very proud that my passport was number 5000 became a

32:15 Then I went to Olivia. What year did you go to Bolivia? 1953? I was 23 years old languages. Do you speak at this point when you get to Brett when you get to Bolivia speak Spanish native tongue and I eat the day I got that I could read, you know reading I could understand 80% of what was in the newspaper and I tracked it and then Spanish that you grew up speaking French in Spanish. Bolivia a quiet Spanish. I stayed in Bolivia 3 years will have to

33:09 With a little quicker. That's okay. What what what did you do for a living in Bolivia? I worked with my parents at the store.

33:18 Hello clothing store.

33:20 I worked with them for a while but it's not easy when you are a mother to work with your father and your mother with your father, especially and after a while I started doing all kinds of business no business in Bolivia was really legit. They went there was no such thing as a legit business, so I would bring I would bring merchandise from tree.

33:46 I would pay people to bring merchandise without paying customs duties and sell it in the stores in Bolivia.

33:54 But that was enough to a great businessman. My I didn't do well at the end. I always more money than what I had.

34:02 And then things got bad, you know man one detail. Why do we wear while I wasn't believe you my father with applied for a visa to come to the United States and was sponsored by a cousin, but he had to wait because this is the quota system being born in Poland to get to wait 6 and 1/2 years to reach to be reached and he was reached while he was in Bolivia.

34:27 And without a moment's hesitation suitcase and he move to New York.

34:35 Eventually, he broke my mother and my brother and his family and I join them in 19.

34:43 59 but prior to that but between Bolivia and going to be chilly 1859 I lived in Chile at 3 a.m. That was glorious. I love truly believe me. I hate it with a passion weather Bolivia 1953. You have to be there to understand what kind of a country to watch. That was a very

35:03 Very underdeveloped country women Woods sit on the sidewalk and do different than a sexy tease. You know, they had the a mixed-blood women Spanish and Indian they call them clothes and they were you know, it was really you have to get used to that question of these in Bolivia La Paz. I lived in the capital of pasta was a very small City very hilly.

35:36 And there's not much to do for real for young people while I was there while I wasn't believe you have my father moved to New York and then after three years I decided I don't want to stay in Vale view anymore. So I got papers to go to Chile and I arrived in Chile and I had no idea you had no profession. So

36:00 I went they sent me to some my parents had the acquaintances who had lived in Bolivia and had move to Chile.

36:09 And one of them was active in the Jewish community, so

36:13 We went through. I asked him if you could help me get the job or something. So it should. But then I mentioned that they speak so we got me sent me to a town in the south of Chile call tomoko and to be able to teach Hebrew to the children after the day school. They would come and speak to me before and that works out. Wonderfully. I had a great time to people with knives and I still have friends that that correspond with and we only have a few more minutes. I just want to get you to America and maybe meeting mom as a wrap up for us. So when did you come to New York? And how did you meet your wife will my mom?

37:13 New York my parents while I wasn't really my parents kept riding that I should come and join them in the head and seen me my mother and seen me for 7 years and no more than seven. So

37:28 I arrived in New York and live with my parents in Brooklyn and my father had the friend of a friend with an acquaintance who was from the same town where he was born.

37:40 Weather lettuce here and my future wife who lived in Colombia Bogota

37:49 Came to the wedding of a cousin and we were introduced and then we started going out and then I asked her if she wanted to marry me and she said she would if she wants to think about it, but eventually she act so she agreed.

38:07 And then we would measure the 1961 and the result is you and your brother.

38:13 And no dog. And here we are and Shadow child is my son's wife and we are have two grandchildren running.

38:24 Have even Maya leaving Los Angeles and I think that's about it. But let me ask you something when you came to the United States from Chile. You didn't speak English at that point. Did you I spoke some you know, since I was a child all the movies we so we're in English with subtitles. So I got used to the sound and to end in Israel. English was almost a second language. I didn't study it formally but I have a I got used to say you actually when you came to United States you so you could get back to go over or yes. Absolutely. Absolutely.

39:05 Did you come through Ellis Island or anything or just to the airport at the ship from Valparaiso in Chile to Panama and in Panama? I took a plane and I flew to Miami in from Miami to New York. And how did you make a living in New York on June 14th?

39:24 1959 on my Boost and how'd you end up making a living in America were first I work for a company that's called a French cable company because I was bilingual in French and English. I was doing paperwork clerical work and then eventually I took a test to work for the court to Criminal Court in New York As an interpreter for Spanish and English.

39:52 And I passed the test and that was the beginning of my career. I worked 27 years in the courts. I retired in 1996 time to shut the time then Venture and then I became a cuz they was more Promotional and that line and that's how I retired as a clerk of the Criminal Court in New York City.

40:19 And I would stop it now.

40:26 Ball, thank you so much. Thank you, babe for sharing your story with us. It was a fascinating and and and Rich really very rich, but it's very hard to put everything in there. But we did the best we could you times but it's nice to actually get through. So we good we will have something over it.