Jason Blackford and Jason Hough

00:03 My name is Jason Wayne Huff. I'm 40 years old today is November 3rd 2013 in San Francisco, California and I am with my fiance and partner who is

00:18 My name is Jason Wayne Blackford. My age is 36 years old today's date is November 3rd 2013. We are in San Francisco in California, and I'm with my fiance and soon-to-be husband.

00:35 So Jason Blackford tell me a little bit about what it was like growing up as a young gay boy particularly in the Southern United States.

00:47 Well, I grew up in a small world town in Missouri and course. I didn't really identify as gay until I hit puberty and I didn't have much in the way of Role Models. So I was just always really kind of confused.

01:08 I pretty much kept everything hidden from everyone and tried to keep heading for myself for as long as I could and basically just kept living my life with this one piece of me. Just Hidden Eye.

01:28 Eventually decided that I needed to get out of that small town and the way I did it was first. I became an exchange student and lived in Berlin Germany for a year and got to kind of see the World At Large.

01:46 So at what age did you realize that you were gay? I would say it was around 12. Okay, you can continue.

01:53 So at 16 is when I was an exchange student and I didn't really see much of gay men or women at that time while I was over there just because of the family I was hanging out with and I had school still another responsibilities, but it kind of opened up my mind that there were other ways of living life than what I was used to.

02:23 When I was 21 and my junior in college, an army recruiter called me up and a few short months later. I was in the Army and in Monterey, California.

02:38 Sitting Arabic at DLI I which is Defense Language Institute, where most foreign language Learners go where you're sitting for the Army Airforce Marines Navy and while I was there, I got my first computer and that opened up even bigger world for me and I was able to finally see that two men could actually love each other and that's when I finally came out and what year was that? That was 2000?

03:08 All right. And after that point, did you start dating? How did how did that play on?

03:16 I went to my first gay bar a month before my 23rd birthday and was terrified went out and basically walked around the Monterey for about two hours before I was actually able to get up the courage to walk into the bar.

03:38 Finally walked in the bar had about 16 beers and got to know if you guys and finally

03:48 Got the courage to kiss one of them and from then on I knew I was gay and have been dating ever since.

03:57 So given the the year that you mentioned previously don't ask don't tell was active in the time. Is that correct? That's correct. And while while I was in. Tell was very much in full swing and I was one of

04:18 My account I don't know what the exact number but a good number of Guys and Dolls that were discharged under that. I'm very policy. So even though I'm at the time I was fluent in Arabic Russian and German I was discharged because I was gay.

04:40 And how did your family and friends respond when you came out?

04:46 Everybody was fine with it. Nobody really had any issues with it except for my dad. He's since someone come around he's is tolerant of it. He's not really accepting. He's not even to come to our wedding. So as you know, but it's a far cry better than what I used to be. So.

05:12 And are you the only family member that you know of any other side of your family extended family that is gay or some sort of alternative sexuality know I know of one cousin who is by I also know of my sister-in-law's aunt's she has one biological parent her by her partner are lesbians. So it's not uncommon in the family to you. No have this may be present and known so I'm like my niece and my nephew have no issues with it.

05:53 And then of course with your family, I'm just wondering what about with you? Cuz I know that you have your cousins. So I I'm as far as right now. I'm the fourth and the extended family that has come out either as gay or lesbian. I am so our family is definitely in a time of transition in the range right now my chores very different than yours in terms of of my coming out in the sense that I also needed an early age.

06:33 H7 Ashley that I was gay, but my family Dynamics were very different my dad would regularly say things such as a bag me to be shipped off to an island to kill each other off. I was Raising very conservative Evangelical Christian home and the only path that I knew was to hide who I was I knew that was the only way that that I would survive and they did. The irony is that one of my my cousins that I was around frequently. We knew just without talking about it that he was gay and that I was gay and it's only been recently in the past few years since he has come out and incense. I've come out which wasn't until 2009 at age 36 that was really started bonding as family members that have have a unique unique bond in perspective.

07:33 Through the fact that we're different than the rest of the family.

07:37 So, how was that coming out? And why was it so late?

07:42 I actually tried coming out to my parents at age 19. It was a Thanksgiving day and I invited my mom and dad over to my apartment to tell them that they've had a gay son. I wanted them to be the first to know and as I was stumbling through trying to tell them that their oldest son was gay. My mom realized what I was trying to say and she got very angry very irrational. She blurted out that we should just go get a male prostitute and take care of the problem. And I knew I had to go far far back in the closet and put a huge padlock on it her reaction scared me and so I did quote unquote what I should have done. I love myself to date women. I had a woman fall in love with me. Married was married to a woman for 10 years have three wonderful daughters as a

08:42 But ultimately, I was leading a double life the entire time behind the scenes and I was attracted to men I would meet up with men and I had an entire double live. I was a top professor at one of the number one Christian universities in the Southern United States. I was very active in my Evangelical Church speaking out against gay people and yet behind the seams I was gay myself and smiling 2008/2009. I knew that I could not live that double life anymore nor did I want to and I'm making out?

09:24 So

09:26 You and I have been together now officially. Mr. Blackbird for two and a half years. I would like to get your perspective on the first night that we met.

09:39 First night that we met course you were there at the bar first with your friends and I walked in and I noticed you with your friends and I walked by and was waiting on some of my friends course.

09:56 And I kind of noticed you glancing over my way. Just awkwardly shy trying to

10:06 Mega not seem obvious, but it was very obvious. It was very

10:14 Very cute

10:17 I just remember you walking over and saying hi. My name is Jason and

10:23 Course me saying yeah. Mine is too kind of the name of our generation it seams and

10:35 And he walked back over to your friends and I watched you walk away and it looks like he'll come back over.

10:41 Enter know if you did.

10:45 And it was just have been a rough week.

10:50 I've been very rough week for both of us. That week before that Friday night.

10:55 I'm trying to remember what it said. It happened what it happened that week for you for me. That was the

11:01 Wake up the tornado hit Joplin and wiped out most of town. So I'm including my Reno killed some of my friends and you know, some of my family and white. My dad's business and

11:19 So yeah, it was a very rough week. And so I just know we need to get out. So yeah, I was out when that was Saturday night, not Friday, but so get there and just need to kind of let off some steam since I couldn't go go back home.

11:40 And how's it's nice to be able to talk with a handsome guy?

11:46 What did you think?

11:48 Well, I had seen you around San Jose California area at different events, and you always cut my eye.

11:58 I just wasn't available at the time cuz I was in my first gay relationship after divorcing in 2009, but that relationship crashed and burned and I was actually before that night. My my week was really difficult because I was experiencing a lot of depression. I had broken up with that first relationship and it ended really badly and I had actually held up in the house for about a month. I work from home so I can work during the day and usually don't get out of my pajamas during the the rest of the evening and finally had a couple of friends literally dragged me out that evening and said you're going with us going to go grab some drinks. They threw me in the shower literally and turn on the water and clean me up. And so you walked in that night and felt like a teenage girl like her was all aflutter and I had to tell my friends like I seen this guy around he's really handsome.

12:58 And of course I had my first of however many beers that was to try to get a little bit of cards. I could talk to him go talk to him and you just look so so cool. And so confident. That's when I did my fly by and went and came up and and said hi to you and it was that was really it just really fun that you were Jason. Also. I saw don't like that fact the evening progressed though has did the rest of our lives. What was it that happened that evening that sort of you just knew that you're going to keep me around for a while. I'll course. There was the not only the Jason but it was middle name to

13:47 I mean your friend Joey asked how he's going to be able to talk now tell the difference between the two of us whenever you wanted to get her attention. And you said well, just call me JW and I'm like, what's your middle name as soon as you said Wayne I had to put my driver's license.

14:04 All my life. I always liked study the study of astrology and numerology and you know, the whole Shakespearean, you know, would you know the name of a rose still smell as sweet if it was called something else but a rose, you know, I've always wanted to find another Jason Wayne just to see if he would be like me. I'm sure enough. He's gay Sansome.

14:32 And now he's got my heart so

14:37 That would definitely was a very intriguing night and

14:43 They just kept on going cuz you were smart and you're funny and

14:48 You just made me happy and what about for you? I think it was actually the next day that really secure it for me when we play plant played Scrabble for 7 hours Non-Stop and I could not beat you. I was infuriated. I still I still get angry thinking about it today. But the fact that I had met somebody to stand toe-to-toe with me mentally very much was attractive besides you being a good-looking guy and you also had it had a brain and that entire weekend of connecting mentally emotionally physically.

15:34 It is still one of my sweetest memories might as well, but you did eventually beat me three months later. Yes, three months later. And so 3 months later found us living underneath the same roof, and we have been together for two-and-a-half years. What would you say are your three favorite memories of our time together so far?

16:02 Well, first one for most is just

16:07 The

16:10 First time you left and I got to get rid of all the wire hangers.

16:19 But more importantly that I got to make a sign for you to said welcome home because it really meant that you are coming home.

16:30 That meant a lot to me.

16:34 The second would be swimming with the dolphins.

16:38 Which I think is probably would be one of yours. Yes. Just being able to see your face light up just being able to make that wish of yours come true by God was very special.

16:54 And the third being able to introduce you to my family and just having that.

17:01 Compulsory coil and seeing their love for you.

17:06 Come through as much as I love you.

17:10 And what were your three?

17:12 The first weekend, of course, it is very very special to me and and always and always will be. I just I knew I knew without a shadow of a doubt that

17:28 You're not going to be just some guy that I met at a bar.

17:32 There is much more that I was going down the road.

17:35 And yes, I would have to say that second one is getting to swim with a dolphin after it being a childhood dream of mine forever.

17:48 And you surprised me with that our first Christmas together and then to be in the water with you and to touch that animal.

17:58 For the very first time in

18:02 List of how much it meant to me that you paid attention to the little things.

18:10 That would make my life special.

18:13 And I thought you were also very much Incorporated with another animal my third favorite memories when you took me to my first High pool.

18:21 And I still remember how sore my facial muscles were from smiling after I got to pick up my purse starfish and run up to you and show you what I found very very proud of that. So those those three sort of for the top the last news for 40 year old. Sometimes you act like a four-year-old and it's it's adorable too. Well, and you are you allow me to and so it's very much appreciated and almost exactly we are 6 months out from a very big day. We are getting married May 24th this next year.

18:59 How are you feeling about that sitting across from?

19:04 From me and in fact that you have a looming wedding coming up. I'm comfortable with it because you're doing all the planning with my mother. So I'm just glad I had veto power most of the way but you know, like most things life happens and kind of comes in and you know takes hold and we've been able to plant the most of the way that we wanted to and the rest of it's just kind of made it happen the way it was supposed to

19:33 I'm sure you got a little bit more detailed info. On that though. I'm very much looking forward to it. I love the fact that we are getting married in our Kilts for both sides were family lineage. I love the fact that there will be family there in friends there and it's going to be an outdoor wedding and all that and I'm looking looking forward to very much legally getting to call you my husband.

20:05 I need a relationship. Like any other relationship has had its ups and down. What would you say is the biggest challenge that we have had so far in a relationship?

20:23 I think our biggest challenge is also one of our biggest strengths. It's our tenacity and our stubbornness when we are united in a cause we are unstoppable on we and we are divided into cause we are locked horns and ready to fight.

20:41 I'm usually we come around 8 hours later and say we're sorry but during that time we're very much and no not at each other's throats. But we're also very smart sand to Debaters who know our way around that system so we can be no Champion around causes.

21:05 What about you?

21:08 I think our biggest challenge at least from my perspective and it will be until it's resolved is the fact that I haven't been able to introduce my three daughters to you yet.

21:20 I know that has really bug you definitely upset me.

21:27 As you know for the divorce decree, I'm not allowed to let them know about you yet.

21:33 And so it's been a challenge trying to let them know your presents without violating the divorce decree and we had some success in that they know that I'm engaged. They know that I'm engaged to Jay. They just I just don't understand yet that Jada a man so really I think until that day when they actually get to know about you that that's going to constantly be in the back of my my mind that I think your mind.

22:06 As well now, but I still think that they know that I already love them and I already care for them.

22:15 That's going to be it's going to be a scary transition for all involved. Just you know, I am not used to being a father so

22:27 I'm great to two little dogs, but the three little girls that's going to be something different. I can you no help by dresses and help eye beanie babies and all that but the day in and day out of you know, getting him to school on time and something like that that's going to be a little different and I have to get up at 5 a.m. To do it. That's fine. But that's definitely going to be

22:57 Something that's going to be a new challenge, but

23:01 Something I don't think I'm going to

23:03 Bail out

23:06 And looking ahead.

23:11 What are your hopes and your wishes?

23:16 For our relationship five years down the road.

23:20 Now that we've got the Kinks all work out. I don't think we haven't many more landmines to hit think we've gotten those all out of the way just that her health continues to get better. I know with my back problems that that has sometimes been an issue with us and I'll trying to make sure that I'm going in a healthy in being able to get around so mainly just sad and being able to make us one big happy family.

23:58 What are yours?

24:00 Fairy

24:02 Linked to the girls and then getting to meet you and I know

24:08 That within 5 years. It's going to happen.

24:13 And I'm very excited about the possibilities you you're you're wonderful and kind and loving and all of those things that will just make my macarons. Just continue to blossom into wonderful.

24:29 Young women and so when I look down the road a few years, I see you introducing my girls to their very first tide pools and introducing my daughters to their very first dolphin swims and some of those first that you've given me that from a parental role that you're going to to pass it on to them and it's part of why this opportunity is so unique and special to me because my daughters will be able to hear this.

25:00 Interview that we're doing right now someday.

25:04 And so

25:07 If you could call up my girls right now.

25:11 And talk to them.

25:14 What would you say to them?

25:17 I don't know how much how many words to be able to get into without starting to cry.

25:24 Cuz I wanted to say so much to them and I've written several emails.

25:29 There were letters to them outlining how much I want to meet them how much you're hurting.

25:38 How much I just want things to get better for everyone involved?

25:45 I just want to be able to get to know them as people.

25:51 I have already got a great dad.

25:56 And to be

26:00 Back up Dad would be enough title for me. I just want to be able to be their friend.

26:07 BNI Western friends you can set rules but

26:11 But one who's going to look out for them and their best interests, even if they don't like it right now?

26:19 But yeah, I want to make sure that I'm there for you to back you up.

26:27 What about for you?

26:29 I'm going to pay you back off that because I want it on record for my girls to know that when they start dating. We're going with your house role of how to properly approach a young man. So, what is it that you were going to say to any young man that comes to our home to pick up one of my daughters for a date can't believe you're going to I will basically pull the poor young man aside and instead of doing the shotgun theory that most of my family back home in Missouri would like to do I would have pulled him aside save whatever you do to my daughter's I will do to you and I better just be shaking your hand at the end of the night.

27:16 Hopefully Ella Mia and Olivia are going to get that message loud and clear.

27:22 Part of the reason that we are having to wait for you to meet them and some of the the baggage that we've each had to deal with being gay men is our society American society has is in a state of flux and changing and becoming more accepting of who we are as individuals. There are still a lot of places around the country to where it's not

27:50 Accept it and it's not okay to be a young gay man.

27:56 If you could say anything.

28:00 To that young boy somewhere in the United States that is scared of who he is.

28:07 Afraid to let his family know.

28:11 Terrified of the future

28:13 What would you say to him?

28:18 Hold strong

28:21 There's

28:25 It may not seem like it now but

28:27 Looking back on my own life. I was terrified. I just thought that my world would come crashing to an end and that nobody would ever love me or care about me.

28:41 Including my family that they would just turn their backs.

28:46 But

28:48 After coming out and hearing some of the other coming out stories Especially Yours.

28:57 I just know it's better to be loved for who you are than.

29:03 You know love for who you're not.

29:09 Song

29:13 And what's up? What would you say?

29:18 I would

29:21 Let's get right down I level.

29:26 And let

29:28 That young boy know that person most importantly he's not alone.

29:35 Are a lot of other?

29:38 Okay, why isn't I'll get curls in the world.

29:41 And

29:44 But things do get better.

29:49 If you try for you if you had that direction and I would let him know that one of

29:58 My regrets was not fully coming out that day when I was 19 years old.

30:05 And of course in in hindsight, I wouldn't have some of the the blessings that I do now. I wouldn't have my daughters and probably would not have met you but I still wish I would have had the wherewithal.

30:19 To stand up for who I was

30:22 And I should know I'm at the irony is that I was afraid of losing my relationship with my family.

30:30 And I came out at age 36 and I've lost my relationship with my family.

30:37 Cut off for my parents cut off for my brothers.

30:41 But I don't regret coming out my only regret not having done it done it any sooner.

30:50 One of the things that we've talked a lot about as a couple is just looking at the broader world.

30:59 And

31:01 Some of the concerns and worries that we have not only for

31:06 Our country but but other people around the world swell and protected and it comes to the issue of gay riots there so many and Roads and so much Advanced has happened in our country, but yet there's countries around the world right now where you can be put to death for it worth against the law. Although all of these these different scenarios were seeing pop up on the news.

31:36 In terms of

31:39 The gay community in the United States. What do you think we could do as a community to help bring more positive attention and conversation two individuals around the world are being persecuted because of their sexuality.

32:01 I'm not sure anything that we can do but live our lives.

32:08 Basically being out in the open and just showing that the world's not ending because

32:14 We're getting married or you know, a lesbian couple has a daughter of Their Own.

32:22 You know that the transgender person is just living their life the way that they feel the

32:29 They were supposed to.

32:31 Just doing those things.

32:36 And they're not being no major consequence is just going to show the world that there's there's nothing going to happen. There's no dire consequences for this.

32:49 I know it's just being accepting of people letting people be who they are.

32:56 Now it's the same with you. No religion Creed color it, you know the sax religious all of it just being able to

33:10 Allow people to do those things that

33:14 Make them feel comfortable and happy.

33:21 And what are your thoughts on it?

33:24 You know, I can be a little bit more militant when it comes to to approach. I really think that if the gay community like a couples like you and me actually traveled to some of the countries to we're not where we would get thrown in jail or or killed but we're there still a really negative perspective and attitude toward same-sex couples if we were just there and present and walked around hand-in-hand like we do in our our Tiny Town of Salinas and hopefully we're changing some of the mines there that

34:03 The world will become a better place for individuals with a kind of sexuality a lot sooner than later.

34:10 That's one of the things that that I believe happened in our own country as soon as people started realizing that they knew somebody that was gay, but they work with somebody family member friend. It was at that point that attitude started changing.

34:30 So that would be that would be my way so.

34:34 Upon a trip. I also like thinking about how sometimes history is is cyclical.

34:47 At lessons from the past.

34:49 That were once learned sometimes how they are forgotten. And I know that there's an interesting story in your family in terms of having a negative attitude against certain types of couples. Can you tell me a little bit about that?

35:06 Yes. Well, that was one of the reasons why my family was so accepting of me being gay is that

35:16 My grandfather's brother married a black woman and the 19 was it 40s and was disowned by my great-grandmother.

35:29 And I didn't know that they existed until my great-grandmother died when I was nine and

35:38 You know my in my aunt Della was the sweetest woman I've ever met. She just laughed all the time. I was I saw her and so I just never understood why that was the case until I was much older and could kind of be brought in on you know, why that was no seen as you know taboo at the time and so when I came out and my dad didn't speak to me for 5 years and finally met my grandfather found out about it. Basically by her this through my my my aunt my dad's sister that my grandfather pulled my dad at side and said, we're not having this in this family ever again, you can love who he wants.

36:28 So being disowned for who you love was just not acceptable anymore.

36:35 And and it's a shame that had to come from something so dark, but I'm glad that the lesson was learned.

36:45 But I think that's very similar to something that happened to my family. I confirm a all Caucasian family and particularly on my mom's side. They're very much was a public disdain within our family is very spoken that you did not date outside of your race. And I remember my mom's at Mom's Aunt falling in love with a Hispanic gentleman and that changed the family over time. So the issue of race wasn't that big a deal and now that there are four of us of the cousins that came out in a same-sex in my cousin Matt just married his husband last month. I think the same same thing as might just have to happen it in terms of any future for the bigotry future Prejudice that we can get around each of those obstacles and understand as a

37:45 As a family where they're holding different family members back that maybe that won't be the case down the road.

37:52 And I'm hoping that when it comes to my daughters that you and I are going to rain on our own Prejudice. He's at our own biases when it comes to who they may fall in love with who they may have a relationship with one of these days as well. I don't care who they date as long as that person treats them well.

38:12 That's all that matters to me.

38:15 And you and I have very different Faith backgrounds. I still identify as Christian.

38:22 And

38:24 You identify as Pagan and

38:29 We have found a way to be a

38:33 Dual Faith household. Give me love and respect one another. What do you think the secret to that is?

38:40 I'm allowing you to be happy with what makes you happy.

38:44 I've attended church with you. I'm supported you you know it. I've just not cross the line that made me uncomfortable.

38:56 But I knew that supporting you and your faith was important to you when so I did and you've done the same for me.

39:04 And I know that mine isn't you know, I say Pagan because there's no other.

39:11 Moniker that fits because it's my own belief system stems from science, so it's not really a religion.

39:22 But it's what makes me feel connected to something greater than

39:28 So and it what comforts me.

39:35 Song and you've been very supportive and

39:39 So I think

39:41 How do you think we've been able to navigate it? I think it's like everything else in a relationship. We found common ground.

39:49 And that's the key. I don't think it matters whether you're gay straight or otherwise.

39:56 It is finding what is most important finding priorities and every other a lot of the things that you know, and from your family to raise my coming Springs instead of causing couples to to break up in the relationship to fall apart. They just don't matter and the greater scheme of things. So I'm very much looking forward to sharing life with you and I know my daughter's will to buy I can't wait to get them two T-shirts. The let's say I haven't had my Pagan Christian gay dads. I just I just I I think it'll be be great. I think because we are honest with who we are there going to love us. We're going to have a very long if a filling life together, and I'm very glad that I found you mister Blackford. Glad I found you too much. I love you. I love you too, baby.