Spencer Strellis and Paisley Strellis

00:03 Hi, my name is Paisley strelis. I'm 35 years old today is May 24th. 2014. We're in the San Francisco Public Library and I am Spencer still has his daughter.

00:19 My name is Spencer stralis. I'm a d

00:23 It's May 24th 2014 and we're still in a public library and I am Paisley's father.

00:35 But I believe

00:38 Thought I would choke you like to say it's a wise child.

00:49 Well, I was thinking we could start by talking about where you grew up and your father.

00:57 I was born in Chicago.

01:00 And then the second world war came along even before the second World War. I have a sister who has has been very serious had has been very seriously. And so she lived on the west coast of the Los Angeles area and we kind of some place we live there and somebody feed live in Chicago. He had to be out there. That was a Great Depression jobs were not you didn't move away from a job so quickly. I mean dad had a good job. He works for the city of Chicago as an engineer and it would not have been a good idea to give up that job and hope to find one. So they this new lot of going back and forth. Then the second world war came along and he joined the Navy

01:48 And we moved around quite a bit because of that in the United States and when the war was over he still work for the federal government and we went to Guam and then from romwe rent in French Morocco Living Branch where I go. They went to Italy and I went to college which is a good trade-off. So can we go back a little to Guam osher? I feel like that's something that has colored your view of the world in your life. You have fond memories of that time. I am very fond memories that was a time when people didn't travel as much

02:30 I mean you didn't jump on it yet and get to where you're going in a few minutes when we went out to Guam. We went on a ship and it took us out of call.

02:40 14 days, I think just to get the Hawaii and this is from New Orleans.

02:49 I didn't go around the horn until many men. Were you living in New Orleans? Yes. He then was transferred to Long Beach. Okay, Seal Beach Ammunition Depot was a huge project that he worked on. So we lived in Long Beach.

03:13 And that was during the war and

03:16 I think you're probably right. I think we probably went directly to Long Beach from New Orleans and then he started a business with his sister the business work out fine, but it was not good for the family relationship. So he decided he would prefer to have a sister then they have a business center, drum.

03:44 I don't know. I meant I was a kid at the time. I really don't know know know Sister you never met who died.

03:55 So you sick of love by the way is your grandmother's sister? I don't know that you meant much of his family.

04:05 74

04:11 This trellises. Well, that's an interesting question to is when did he become melting strawless changed his name?

04:24 After World War II 6 or something. I could look at the order cuz he actually did it in court and

04:34 He was Milton Shapiro before the tunnel Ben Shapiro.

04:38 Our separate ways my mother preferred to print out at the end of the second world war according to a made man. Thought I had it where no living.

04:51 Relatives left in Europe. They had all been killed. So he decided he would take back. The family name was always jealous or something abortion of it happened here. I was just the name you got when you were silent and they used to do, you know, everybody who came through today got to be Shapiro everybody. Okay, which is why the you have, you know clearly quotes Jewish name.

05:24 Immigrated through Ellis Island. Yeah, and then your father was born in America. My father was born in mother. So his father had passed away.

05:38 Ethan everybody if that's why we weren't talking about one or two people he and he was one of I don't know 8 or 10 siblings all of them were in Europe and all of them were dead. He had a

05:54 Sister, I mean Aunt who her music was keeping in touch with the family in Europe. And at the end of the second world war there was so far as we could discern one member of the family alive would run that Alice nine and so

06:17 They were going to send Martin to my uncle to go visit because he was closest but he couldn't get past Las Vegas. So and that didn't work. He wasn't crying. So he was in America. They were trying to send him to visit her in Palestine.

06:41 Which may or may not have been true?

06:44 You heard the expression never let the facts get in the way of a good story line belief. But anyway what happens if I have a tape that he made?

06:56 Some years later and what happened was that because of the enlistment job roles if he joined the army then his twin brother didn't have to join the Army and they bribe someone to say they were twin brothers. They were not actually Twins and Martin went into the Russian army that he deserted anyone back in desert it again. I'm not sure why then he went to a Comerica.

07:30 He sounds like a character.

07:33 We can fill the room with Martin stories Reddit. I say it one of y'all never a hundred percent sure. You're on Rock Bottom in any instance. That's when my father changed the name because he wanted to live on to have exactly as I say there was one relative in.

07:57 Israel in that time. It is in Israel, and so mighty.

08:04 Mother has stirred a friend he knows to see if at that time they had show the radio shows and Israel John Smith of a session. What is trying to get in touch with anybody who still alive cuz you had such a fragmented families. So anyway,

08:25 We asked we my parents asked a friend of theirs who is going to be there. Anyway with you see if he could find anything out and he went to talk to his publisher. He was the author and he was walking down the street and he has some guy.

08:43 Do you know where the street is and the guy said yeah, I I know where it is. But let's walk on the Shady Side of the Street and we'll get there I'll show you so the crossover in their walk and he had used an idiomatic expression which was very common to the area where my relative has lived in Russia. And since they just said they had just talked to this guy ain't the day before to say you're going to know anyway, here's the guy said he says cheese. Do you know? Yeah. I know I am and that's how we found out relative. That's crazy.

09:27 So so you went to go out after World War II e 900 k-50 something like that. Do you remember much about the boat ride over there about fifteen? Yeah, we have any military Cruise military ship but we didn't live down in the bowels of the ship. That's right before we got the runaround when I like this. I enjoyed while I'm very much have a kid. It was a paradise we could do anything. We wanted nobody particularly.

10:17 Discipline. We had a bus at our disposal day or night. We had a driver who was assigned to drive us around. Where did you go? We have a beach party. I want to have a birthday party. We swing by this take the same route we took to go to school and we pick everybody up and we go to the beach unfortunately.

10:40 The driver was fairly young and some of the girls wear high school age and they got to be better friends than was permissible. So one day we came by and instead of having a driver. We have a elderly Channel, but I don't know if I ever heard that part of the story true.

11:01 And you played football there. I played football ever kissed a kind of an odd sort of touch football. I wanted to play tackle. So I convince my folks if they should send me back to the United States for my senior year of high school is the giant spiders that you can play football in live in the snow in Chicago.

11:38 And after you graduated high school, you spent the summer in between that and your first year of college in Morocco French Morocco French Morocco at the time and I spent four summers in bridge where I go and on two of those summers in that travels in Europe.

11:58 As well well as well and

12:02 You know with kids not with grown ups.

12:06 We had a hell of a day and you really could do it. I mean actually could live in travel in Europe for $5 today. The trick was to get yourself to Europe and that wasn't quite as easy as you worked in Morocco. I worked as this survey party. I was a Chamberlain which is it.

12:34 You know that I want to change haven't been used in surveying and many years, but it's the tape that you measure with.

12:42 I remember you saying sometimes you have to take breaks in the middle of the day cuz the heat wave we're so bad. You couldn't get an accurate reading because he was bouncing up and down and you would have to have a gun. They called it again. Yeah.

13:11 It must have been like being on another planet though for you. I mean despite. Your experience is other places in French Morocco was an eye-opener for me. These are people who live totally different in Casablanca for a while, but she was quite nice this year. I have an awareness of this at the time or is it something I told you later?

13:44 My mom wasn't there. I went out my grandfather or grandmother was doing very poorly. So I went and then she came out later.

13:56 Did you like being in some place so different was it exciting to you or was like when we met a lot there really were two distinct groups. There was a Europeans French.

14:16 From from Europe and then where the Arabs themselves because of my peculiar position did okay. I even dated Marcel sedans.

14:36 Sister, I guess our daughter cells are done with a boxer. He was probably the most famous athlete in French Morocco. He was a world champion for a while. I hope you are nice to his sister. However by then he was a lot of tension between these different groups. You felt like you were blowing things up. It was petty but at the time it was a big deal. They just real life couple of train stuff like that.

15:18 You talk about it kind of casually but I was like that's a lot to take it back as we live on a base 20 km out of Casablanca.

15:36 Actually one year we lived in Casablanca.

15:42 It was fun. It was a great way to grow up. You still have your slippers slippers? I think my whole life you've learned those pointy yellow leather heel in them down where it's made the ass down. So you finished up score of the University of Illinois and you went out to California to Alaska and I went to both Hall on the reason I went to both of his because they were the first ones to accept me, you know, I had for free applications for driving taking the l s a t s Paul my brother-in-law

16:36 Tell me what schools I should apply to and he told me before best the year before on the bar. That's who I applied to both Halo accepted May 1st. So I went to go.

16:50 I think it's okay to mention. You have some pretty profound learning disabilities. I'm dyslexic according to stand learning in handicap learning. I'm the perfect example of somebody with dyslexic I adjusted for it, but I can't write and I can't spell you can read like I can replace it tomorrow. If I learn to read right down the middle of the page about right or left. It happens if we're right down the middle ages what they teach you for speed rating. Well, I have always thought it was really impressive that you managed to do all these things especially the time when there were a lot of accommodations and people didn't even know there was no you couldn't have been dyslexic them because

17:48 So while you were at Bolt the sixties were getting started.

17:56 Yeah, actually I went to bowls from 55.

18:02 258 took the bar and passed it and was admitted to practice in 59.

18:10 I mean, this is a time when the barrier was changing pretty significantly improve. Rapidly. Your Recollections of that time will Berkeley up until then had been an old man's club for very well-connected people and there was some pay city of but then there has been some recent legislation about voting age and kids could vote and 121 is that because they were going to Vietnam. I don't have any idea where the better the problem or the lack of problem depending on how you choose to look at it. Is that kids have a different steak in the future.

19:07 Then Grown Ups who have cold already made their way and if the consequences

19:13 Who made profound differences in Berkeley and particularly all the kids in Berkeley decided to vote one way they were going to win that changed tremendously from

19:35 Relatively conservative City to one that's politically, correct.

19:40 Yeah, I don't know what that's interesting. Cuz when I think about that time reading about it, you think about Berkeley in terms of national politics of the national view but it really started by transforming the city itself with all the Berkley Jensen men's rules. You can park anywhere in the whole city on tooth out there. It's a big part of the population is that you can remember I mean well

20:19 First of all, I was free speech movement. There was a change.

20:24 Tremendous change in terms of how people looked at the right to

20:31 Demonstrate against the war and the

20:38 I had to because my dear friend Mel Bernstein did I felt?

20:46 Yeah, and he became a political junkie in Berkeley and Powerful you started out working for the public defenders are most for just shy of five years and I was a public defender in Alameda County County job over your first cake.

21:13 Actually my first case.

21:16 My first jury trial was a

21:21 False police report and I remember it's because a guy reported that the police said hit him and I could two thousand and then it developed that that wasn't true his friended him cuz he was mouthing off to the police officer and his friends out if I'm a come out I can carry him away and he won't get arrested.

21:40 Wow, you shouldn't lose a case like that. It had been hand picked in the public defender's office. So they are your first case you could be successful with but by the time I left the public defender's office, I was trying murder cases with death penalty possibilities. So

22:01 That's crazy. I mean it's the end of the world. We live in it's it's what I do for a living for goodness sake and you yeah, you know, I got 12 people who have to sit and listen to me no matter what absurd thing. I say, how can you ask for more than that and they considered Bad Manners to laugh at you. I enjoyed I enjoyed

22:30 That very much. Yeah, I think you also.

22:36 My impression is that you really believe in the American judicial system. I can't think of anyone that's close to us. Good.

22:46 I mean, they don't know you either have a jury type system. We have a judge type system and my experience has led me to believe that judges are too prone to react to a lot of pressures. I would much rather have a jury decide then a judge decide. It's interesting to hear you say that because we were talking about changes that you've seen in last 50 years and one of them was the big shift from free to terman senses. So sorry, how do you preview tournament?

23:23 Sentences for going to grab predetermined having to do with the old tenant has used to be I will send it to you to Five Years to Life for robbery. Yeah, and then indeterminate because it could be anything but it turned out to be a said 95% of the people who were convicted of robbery got his sentence within a couple of years box. So it was pretty predictable but it's very judges had a lot of discretion don't want the judges to be the one to decide whether my client did it or not, right cuz your predilection to stick but with the people

24:07 I remember when I was little when it finally kind of dawned on me what you did. I was pretty horrified. I think all the kids view all of your kids have gone through what if somebody murdered me would you represent them? I was my best align with your sister and was robbed at gunpoint. I represent the guy and I said, does he have any money?

24:35 He said you got it from

24:49 Is Candice too much shocked her? Well, you used to tell me that it wasn't your job to defend these people so much as it was your job to make the prosecution do their job. Otherwise anyone could run around and pointed each other and say he did that and do you have to test?

25:14 There proof know that what happened in the abstract, but what you can prove today and it's kind of fun to put them and there's just heard an element of competition in all of this we get along very well. I mean the truth is it criminal defense attorneys on both sides of the fence seem to do fine, but

25:40 They both want to win all the judges in the cops and all that stuff. It's a small group relatively speaking and Alameda County. Probably you got less than 200 people who are involved in the criminal justice system, maybe more but not much more.

26:09 That would include probation officers like your mother used to be. I always tell people that she was there the recommendations were so large that we had a polo we figured somebody had to marry her and take her out of the business. I haven't heard that I don't doubt that she was pretty tough on her clients.

26:43 But she cares so

26:48 You've had some pretty interesting cases.

26:51 You decided to touch on your involvement in the Free Speech movement.

27:00 Community I represented Mario I represented his girlfriend

27:13 But I'm going to say we're can you say and you worked with Tony Serra?

27:26 I think his wife's name was Barbara said she was a public defender in Alameda County Valley. But Tony and she went for a vacation in Mexico and he discovered the wonders of peyote and was really never the same again. He came back just as smart. You said you suck at trial lawyer is very good, but he let his hair grow a little.

27:56 So he didn't look like the Stanford grad. Started out as you can play up to the Rolex.

28:05 So during that time you you've also had a number of kids and you had Hobbies outside the lot depending on the kids dictated. But yeah, I went to a lot of swim meets because your sister was as you know,

28:22 A national champion world-class swimmer. I went to a lot of Juno meets because the boys were too good to the judokas. I think it did just think how you got involved in Judo. Well, Eric my oldest son your stepfather half-brother Gorda, brother.

28:46 Eric the girl was dyslexic and also had some coordination problems and I was looking for the way to improve his coordination and somebody suggested you that would be great. And there's a some technical reasons. Why do though is very good for kids with physical disabilities you gave a lot of tactical reinforcement of where your hands are in space cuz you're holding rough material you do it barefooted so you get a lot of reinforcement. So I took

29:17 The suggestion of a bailiff in Berkeley. I took Eric and

29:23 Keith I think at the same time just because why wouldn't I too well AJ studio in Alameda, I became involved I became more involved in Judo.

29:38 Thanks for you know, it was something to do. I didn't play you never do these things halfway though. You don't just put on a barbecue for the swim team you buy a turkey roaster and we do a rotator when we first put them on the menu.

30:06 But they didn't let the kids in while AJ's backyard every year and put on a little louder raise money. I hope you have met at the neighbors know we went to Colombo Club in the whole basement of the Colombo club for two sittings. That's a lot of seats for a little bit about you know, his role in your kid's life. I think he was the best coach

30:45 For children I have ever met and I you know, because I had kids competing in a variety of sports. I had seen it for how you give coaches know. He was very very good. Had phenomenal results many many of his kids went on to be Champions. And when you consider it is about a garage kind of a judo Studio, it wasn't even a pretty big JoJo has dojos go very good and he still managed to have kids ranked nationally pretty consistent. I think it was easier when you didn't have at least one kid, right either nationally or the high school championship for the junior Nationals.

31:30 Your brother, you know Keith not Kate Yaki is Eric call took third in the nation when you're working people earned and not lose his temper. Any discipline speaking of the luau as I when I think about you I think also about your love for cooking and wine making and baking. Yeah, we had fun. I am a picture of you trampling on grapes.

32:09 How did you get involved in wine making?

32:18 I wanted to learn about wine dive into articles are starting to come out about this wine in that wine. I thought

32:26 I should learn about it. I why I thought that I don't know. But once I thought that then the logical thing is if you really want to learn about wine make it.

32:35 Sure. How about a truckload of grapes delivered down your driveway? That's probably the next blood. I think it was on the third floor. She loves to go hiking a good one. I think we're getting better Applejack. Applejack is improving in the Bay Area to the right when local food and pick up momentum, but wine became very popular in this great because it's

33:26 I consider this to board around silly, but it was nothing to do and I had a client.

33:33 A nice lady who unfortunately for taking more wine than she should run for Senator in a couple of the vineyard. She had wine grapes Zinfandel grapes.

33:49 That were

33:51 50 60 years old Billy magnificent as the growth and he would always give me some look back on your life. Is there anything else that really stands out that?

34:09 Why as I told you within my professional career? I was the founder of one of the founders of founding director of the California attorneys for criminal justice, which it's a large Criminal.

34:23 Justice, you know criminal defense group I'm was one of the founders and organizers of the court appointed attorneys program in Alameda County Woods, Memphis instead of random appointment to people and conflict cases. There was a way to do it so that everybody got to turn that $11. I would have had it all so protective VM defending it wasn't just to judge picking his friend and there's just a friend then if you do something to displease at judge you just ran out of their appointments and that's not that kind of control is inappropriate.

35:07 So, you know for that reason so those are my two professional times.

35:14 And you did a lot of work on death penalty. That's part of what cacj is quite concerned about this one of their major.

35:24 Things I happen to be as you know, diametrically opposed to the death penalty. I can think of no situation where I considered inappropriate including Aikman. I don't think they should have executed him.

35:39 And by the way, it is real except for a certain kind of National Security crime. There is no death penalty. They kind of split the baby.

35:55 So I was wondering Center. I really like listening to the stories about Paisley and her siblings and the competitive sports that you sort of raised. Did you have like a philosophy is of as a father like what with your what was your fault? What was your philosophies art of raising your kids? It was a question he needed it because they needed to coordination Lauren just for my daughter just went along with it because she she actually became quite proficient at Judo Keith my next child.

36:38 Was actually a pretty good athlete.

36:41 And he still plays rugby at a really high level. Free continue to play rugby. He's going to break his neck. But anyway and swam nationally exceptionally good swimmer and Paisley believe it or not actually was a member of the crew that is there something in particular that you wanted your kids to learn from competitive Sports you sort of, you know, and I wanted them to learn that when I want to lose you do more losing than winning in this life. It's good to learn how to do it.

37:27 I think you encourage us all to to be part of the world around us to do community service to us to participate to be active.

37:38 Kid Buu as you described your experience as a lawyer sort of been in a similar context art of talking about like competition. I'm with the but the DEA is right when I'm saying is don't believe you know, we all say we do it because we want to put the people that their tests and the people want to prove it. But the truth of the matter is we're all competitive and we want to win.

38:05 And frankly, it's important. I have a feeling if you don't start out wanting you when you're not doing you're doing your client in active this service cuz it's Eureka until I mean the jury is not Fool If You Don't See if you don't think you want to win they don't think you want to win either.

38:22 So

38:24 That makes a difference.

38:27 I think I think that's really interesting.

38:31 When I used to give lectures on child, that was always one of the things I said is you have to give a damn. If you don't give a damn you're in the wrong line of work. I mean, there's lots of law that does not require you to give a damn but if you're going to be a criminal lawyer on either side of the fence you really have to care. This is a Hastings.

38:53 Red Hastings when I touch I'll practice Yeah, there's summer program which they gave up on.

39:04 Well, I think it says something that after all these years you still are such a strong believer in the justice system. I get up every day and I'll go to court. I still enjoy it.

39:20 I think that's wonderful. It's probably.

39:28 Are you a good couple of parking tickets? You could have taken care of?