Judith Kalb and Spring Utting

00:03 My name is spring acting I'm 40 years old today is May 12th, 2015. We're in the San Francisco Public Library and I'll be interviewing my mother Judith called.

00:17 My name is Judith. I'm 74 years old. It is May 12th, 2015. Where in the San Francisco Public Library and I'm Springs mother.

00:31 I'm so Mom. What I wanted to ask you about is what it was like for you to be the only person in your immediate family who went to college and how you left what your family thought about that.

00:46 Thank you.

00:49 I guess the story starts.

00:52 In the ninth grade in junior high school when the teacher when they said he was going to college and who isn't and I just sat there because it has never been broached and I sort of thought. Well I kind of like to I'm a good student but just left it there and considered I wasn't a college coach and so when I went to HighSchool, I was in a secretarial action and I took typing and bookkeeping in business English and shorthand and all of those things which

01:30 It was useful later, but I did.

01:35 Ask two things two questions were very memorable. And I asked them history teacher if I could take his class and he said no and then I asked mr. Brown who I remember very well. This was in Seattle.

01:54 I wanted to take his English class and he turned me down also, and now I am so I didn't take those classes in high school and I didn't ask I didn't go to a counselor or the vice principal or anybody because that that just wasn't me that I can certainly could have done that and I bet I could have gotten in but I didn't and so I felt buffed. I don't think I forget what something so when I graduated from high school, I went to work for Boeing airplane company, which paid very well and I had all the skills. I needed to make a lot of money. I like working there. I wasn't a very good secretary I was

02:44 Knocked over wastebasket. I mean I did get the sort of clumsy things and

02:52 But I don't know why I did this I decided to go to University of Washington at night school and take a course and I chose World Geography.

03:06 And my parents just and they didn't tell me what to do or what not to do. But I think they just kind of and I had to drive I had to take a bus all the way into town and transfer on Skid Row to another bus to the University District was a long or realize after I got going I stopped in the middle of the city and studied at the library the downtown library and then I go out to University and it's a beautiful Campus Washington University of Washington is very pretty with all its Evergreens and

03:48 And I remember my first Professor was very very tall. He was like a Japanese. I think he was from a special island or something and he was he was terrific. I just enjoyed it. I don't remember socializing with anybody just gobbled it up took the bus into town in the dark and into around Alki around a long bus trip around the beach and walked one block from the bus to my house and it was always dark and it was always a little nervous, but it was just what everybody did.

04:25 And I think I took I took three quarter courses the second one was comparative government. I don't think my sisters were even aware. I don't remember talking to them about it.

04:43 And then go to work and and after it's about the time I was 20, I'd Taken 3 good courses for credit and the people I work for we're very sweet there.

04:59 And one day somebody said Ira Masterson was Bill Simmons. Why aren't you in college or why aren't you in school? And I said it was like hey.

05:10 And I had no plan I had no intention. I didn't have a long-range plan, but when something gets planted and so I worked until I had enough money and it's amazing now. It was like $1,700 for a year and

05:33 So I didn't want to live at home. I did want to do dishes. I didn't want to you know participate in the family while I was living there by the way and working I was paying rent $250 a month to my parents and I thought that was fair.

05:55 My mother is like many mothers with a housewife and my father's was a truck driver news working very hard and I was proud of doing that in fact, so but I finally decided not to go to the University of Washington because I probably have to live at home. I had to go back to the State College Washington State University now, but it was I forget what they call East of the mountains and it was like three hundred mile of the way.

06:33 And so I went there and I lived in a dorm.

06:38 Call Don Duncan Dunn and it was small and it was not anything like college today you lived. Well, I think I was lucky. I lived in an old fashioned or they were high-rise storms, which I think we're not quite this way, but we had a house mother and we ate dinner together ding ding on the and

07:00 I knew everybody in the dorm made good friends there.

07:06 Are spelled a little separate because the Duncan Dunn dorm was across the street from the Lambda Chi Fraternity and there weren't fraternities didn't run the school that I was aware of there being another a different way to do it.

07:27 I majored in political science.

07:30 And work very hard.

07:33 What did your parents say when you told them you'd gotten into college or that you were even at wailing mother mother was a

07:44 What's an artistic person and a very good seamstress and she said she make all my clothes and she my sister even made a bust of me, you know, the plaster something and so she make those all the time. I was there and my father really was sweet said

08:03 You won't get a penny, but he was an orphan from the depression than he does.

08:11 What was it the kind of Civilian Conservation Corps and ended made his way from a 14 without parents to know so that he was always worried about money.

08:22 And had a successful.

08:25 4 years only had to stay out one semester to make more money because of Boeing went on strike or something in the couldn't get a job there.

08:34 All the other years I was welcome back.

08:38 And none

08:41 And people will I always knew I wasn't doing anything practical study Political Science and History.

08:50 And I consider changing the end and being a teacher, but I didn't really want to do that. And so I never did.

09:00 I assist my youngest sister.

09:04 I was pretty close to invited her over during those years to Pampas and I thought you know what you're a good time and try to encourage her to go to school somewhere and I didn't know any other places and she after after being persuaded and after being fussed at 7. Welcome. She said

09:35 Do the I just don't want to work that hard. I see what you're doing. And I just don't feel like it and so did you want me to say anything more? So I didn't know she seems forgotten that and I don't reminder, but that's you got to go to school, but

09:53 What did you do after college?

09:57 And how did you decide what to do after, I want to say one thing first thing they all came. Well, they all came to the graduation and my phone was very proud and after school, I oh I was recruited off campus with a few other people who are in government poli-sci.

10:22 To work to go to Washington and work their butts first work on the jaunt the LBJ campaign in Seattle.

10:31 So I did that and that was fun downtown. We were kind of in charge of young people young people's activities. And remember we put on a party at something called the Blue Moon have a very nice pictures sitting at a desk looking.

10:50 Looking important.

10:53 I know we were all excited when there was a person sweeping the the sidewalk in front of our office and wait cuz we're on the ground floor those with the spies from Goldwater.

11:07 But after that was so so the elections in November early November and after all the thank you notes were written and cleaning up that we had to do. I was at home and it was just automatic to me.

11:25 2090 I have a job in Washington waiting for me on the Commerce Committee which was

11:35 In the control of Center to Magnuson. He was the him and he was the I think he had the most seniority and Congress at the time.

11:48 Cheese, was there since 1937 or something and quite a while and I really didn't get to know him at all. But I was on one of his companies which is more interesting really, but I thought I had to

12:04 I couldn't sit around for a month or 3 weeks or something. So it seems silly to me now. So I arranged to go to Washington and people said don't you wait for Christmas and I did just have a job. So I arranged with a girl would graduated ahead of me and Sarah something and she would welcome me and so I flew to Washington and

12:37 Call her.

12:40 And she had enough I got to where she lived and her boyfriend was living with her and that wasn't appropriate that was like in 1964.

12:52 No, yeah, and

12:57 So she gave me the couch and she had a blanket on the couch as cold and her boyfriend you can live with her boyfriend at that time. And so he had to send him away. And so they were just waiting for me to leave there by Daddy.

13:17 So I left kind of in a hurry. I had sort of an inappropriate roommate.

13:24 Who worked for Tom Foley who was an important speaker and she was a good worker, but she had marriage she was married and had two children in Seattle. And after we were together for a while and inefficiency high-rise.

13:41 Right by the market in

13:45 And she brought those girls back. She kidnapped hurt the girls from her husband their sweet.

13:52 But come

13:54 Once I had taken them somewhere and came home and then K was on the floor deficiency with her boyfriend little girl came running out.

14:07 And so I moved from there pretty soon. That's fine.

14:12 I was I was asked to be a cherry blossom princess is so very political not really own. This is life. And that was

14:25 It wasn't something you one. It was something every state had to come up with and if if a senator had a daughter who is the right age or whatever so they didn't they already done that so I got to be it which waiting from a car thinks not easy, but I met a very nice girl from Wisconsin cuz W know you're sitting in order of your state all the time. So I got to know Karen Burke even Wisconsin and she was I was impressed because she work for the Department of Agriculture and she had gone to London to demonstrate frozen foods.

15:12 So this was a more age-appropriate and

15:18 Portugal propionate

15:20 Roommate and we haven't kept in touch, but I always think I should sometime and

15:31 How do you make Dad well that was in DC right now? So you're not hearing anything about the important work I did which I wasn't really important. But what did you do between a secretary and a

15:47 What's up? I don't know what you would call it. Now you did whatever and were there any political figures at the time that impressed you or didn't impress you or just well that's stuck in your memory.

16:03 Well

16:05 Yes.

16:08 I think I passed Senator Ted Kennedy in the hall and I think and I passed Senator Dirksen a republican. I didn't get to know big people. I just wasn't.

16:22 I set my own little life at home, but I did meet John.

16:31 Let's see. The story is.

16:35 Sharon wanted to go to singles dances called Joppa and this kind of knew it wasn't very common. But and one story is his roommate.

16:50 Wanted to go so neither of us really wanted to go course and so I met him so he asked me to dance and he's not a good dancer, but

17:03 Oh dear, but he was very handsome and very sort of quiet and and then you ask me to dance again. I don't remember dancing with anybody else, but we had an any asked me for if if he could drive me home and I said no I'm with my friend. That's what you did and I

17:31 And so but I did get my phone number and called me at the office again and again and I guess we go out and then I said I thanked him and I said no and

17:45 Again, and again and have pain to me I said, do you know how old I am and I felt more mature. I guess I felt lonely because I was just out of college when I was 20 and but but that time I was at 24.

18:07 And he laughed and we're exactly the same age if born the same year, but I thought he looked like a fraternity boy. And so we started going out.

18:17 That's the story we laugh about and then we dated for 3 years and he was at the Smithsonian and going on Expeditions whenever you get a chance, so it was a long courtship.

18:34 So tell me about if this is a good time to talk about so you guys got married and then dad wanted to move to Ethiopia. How did he had a baby you had the CDL we are how did he throw this idea out? Did you know that he was well, no, we we lived in Washington for a while.

18:58 Because we're both working there and then he suggested I get a different job because the first year you learn 100% in the next year 75 in the next year and what I've been there for years. And so I accepted that challenge and

19:16 Nightmare going around looking for a new job. But I ended up having a good job with a retired Sione of the social science research.

19:29 School will he was from Colombia? But he was there in Washington for a couple years. So I did that for a couple of years and then we were married I think and then we moved to Baltimore.

19:42 Interesting things move the ball. Well, why did you move to Baltimore?

19:52 Well, if they want to know if anyone wants to know about their grandfather here so store then you can go on the way to Baltimore. He went to.

20:02 The Carnegie geophysical lab

20:06 He graduated from American University went to the Carnegie geophysical lab and

20:13 Venom and Peter Bell. Dr. Peter Bell and Peter told me

20:20 Your husband came in and ask for a job and he had so much and got all that. I hired him and so he recommended that John go to Johns Hopkins after working there.

20:34 And them

20:36 So we were there for year and that's where Justine was born in the

20:42 Hospital very near the campus which is in Northern. I think it's a northern part of Baltimore. So we really didn't get to know the Baltimore that you hear about now. It was kind of up.

20:57 I worked there and had a baby in the

21:05 In-the-know know what to call it the part of the hospital where people without much money stayed so

21:15 That was very military and the nurses were not babying anybody and they'd say time for showers and I didn't know that you had to hurry and get it one. That's my impression of the only kind people were candy stripers to a concert and in Spanish.

21:39 And I remember when it was time to go home. I got in the car and I don't know if I said it out loud are going to be allowed or just myself into that. We lived in a

21:57 In a apartment a student apartment building and had some funny stories about that when on the road just moved and the people above has had pigeons found a babysitter who brought her little chicks.

22:19 One night. There was a mother there a young mother who was a devoted nurse your baby. There's a name for the be at the group that she was associated with so she was very helpful. She counseled everybody, but after a year

22:41 John has he says it like this. He said them.

22:45 Good friend. I wish I could remember his name put on a magazine on his desk or in front of him at lunch or someplace like that and he and it was about.

22:59 The app for in Ethiopia and so done with smitten rights, then he didn't like school. He he didn't like Colin. She never did. He never wanted to follow anybody's orders. And so that doesn't help make you a very good student and a lot of complaints about some of the math and it wasn't geology the way he liked it, which is old style is getting out there. So right then he started making plans and we ended up leaving driving.

23:38 With a baby in the front seat because nobody knew that you shouldn't have a baby in the front seat in there were no car seats or any rules like that. So I just nursed her all the way to Houston.

23:53 Which was sort of on our way and we went.

23:57 And to make arrangements that take some time so then we lived up Flour Bluff Corpus Christi on the beach and then apartment owned by his.

24:09 Cousin will

24:11 And

24:14 That was bad headed small Adventures John work for a

24:20 Remember the work for a demolition or on a tugboat? Maybe did both of those things that a nice time with a stroller and just turned 1 year there. There's a little girl upstairs who was a year and they had their birthdays. She was chicken with a birthday and that was memorable. The other memorable thing is John looked at somebody welding and hurt his eyes and luckily the little girl's father was a doctor and took care of that with her highlights.

24:59 And then I went John went to Ethiopia and made an arrangement for himself and I went home to Seattle for 18 days. We counted them because I had an argument with my mother and I had avoided it totally and

25:20 So I'm disappointed with myself, but what was the argument about? I do not remember I don't I'm curious. So how dad said let's move to Africa remember that or was it just a gradual gradual and I did I mean, I don't think I'd go now.

25:45 What did your family say when you said I'm moving to Addis Ababa. They didn't they didn't say anything that I can remember.

25:53 That wasn't the argument or anything. They're always let you know I didn't say anything and I even

26:01 Ask my aunt and years passed and years after that I said, my mother must have really been worried and she said well, maybe she wasn't very nice of her, but she said no she wasn't and

26:18 She wrote me letters. I forgot to say she I forgot to say that she made clothes for me for the years. I was in Washington and cherry blossom princess clothes. And and then finally, she said that's it. And so I learned soap on my own but

26:39 No, I did get letters from home. And what did you think when you first arrived in Africa? Well John said we were going to live in an Italian Villa. Well that didn't happen. At first. We live in the ground floor of an apartment building at least the ground floor open to some grass and fence and it had one bedroom and we put the baby there it wasn't what I pictured but it was okay and

27:16 We found someone to help us out from a woman who worked.

27:23 For an American Banker who is sleeping and she is still well. We are kept touch with her shoes living with her children who left Ethiopian that think they live in Las Vegas and then knish she goes by now calls every once in awhile.

27:40 I remember thinking she always says asked about you and ingesting. So your question was when I just

27:58 He was very outgoing and like to be the boss and I didn't mind at that time. Now I mind.

28:07 Grown up

28:11 And I swear.

28:15 Well, I guess an afterthought.

28:19 How many didn't get his Doctorate because he couldn't slow down and study and pouch couch go through that but he had students came to join him to work with him cuz he had set things up for an expedition to find early man in the afar depression when he was with the Frenchman who that you partnered with for a while. I must say the French when was their first but they work together. Well.

28:54 Except on a few organizational, mr. But

29:00 The people who joined him who had their doctorates.

29:07 Didn't have the same initiative he has for the most part, but tell me about what it was like for you living there. I mean you were he was going off in the field weeks months at a time and you were two or three weeks in a foreign country with a small baby. And then by the time she was 15 months and it was easy to make friends there.

29:33 Actually, how did you make friends?

29:39 Talk to the Embassy or I'm over the hill is going to remember how I mean who were the people there? Well at a sub above which is a city we lived in was sort was sort of the center of the organization of African unity. And so they had many foreigners there and we met I forget how I met the Ethiopian satellite that we socialized with

30:06 I really do but

30:09 Oh.

30:12 I really do some we met.

30:17 Because I took little jobs.

30:19 And

30:25 What kind of jobs did you get there? Well.

30:31 I work for a meat packing for a German real German and I know I need you girl work there and her husband was the head of the Ethiopian truest organization.

30:52 And I

30:56 Did you teach dance? Well, I was later. I

31:04 I

31:07 Was asked to work at well with something else people were leaving from time to time and I was asked to substitute for an American who was

31:27 Moderating or announcing a classical music program. It was Lutheran, but this was just straight classical music. And so I agreed to do that.

31:42 And I loved it. I don't choose I go in and choose my what I would play they wanted to short things and I had my script to introduce each thing. I really love doing it because I listen to a lot of music. I did not did not get to play when I wanted because one short enough.

32:08 Anaheim Center in a booth

32:13 That was something I could not have done unless I was trying to do it if I were at home, so that was that was so I appreciated that as an opportunity.

32:24 And while I was doing that she didn't come back but there was one thing that happened was quite a ways away. I took a little cab a little blue taxi to get out there and I thought

32:42 Someone to pick up just staying at the French school where she went. I want him to fart and John and thought I had picked her up. And so oh my gosh, that's why

32:59 Ran home and then I didn't pick her up. Somebody else did it was just like three blocks away from where we lived and she was in pre-k. So she was little and

33:11 She had she was found in the kids boarded and she was playing one of those games and she was just having a good time and she'd had dinner and I thought that was lucky that it worked out so well, but I felt.

33:32 Apparent anyway the soldiers

33:39 From Cuba had come to Ethiopia. There was a lot of unrest I forget where I kind of went on for years, but they took over the squash court where John was playing squash. They took over the radio station, of course, but I wasn't there that John was at the squash court when they asked him believe we made catch up with some ladies and we stored it in there at the square up. Whatever the squash court was a part of we lost our ketchup Johnson. Can we just finish this game?

34:24 And so things changed from from then on.

34:33 What did you ask me? I think overall the eight years in Ethiopia such a memorable part of your life. It was what to take away from that now, well, you remind me of what I was thinking at the beginning or as as we're learning to live there was that we were lucky because it was slower and slower than life at home. And I really love that walk around the above the town.

35:08 It was just people if you had a birthday if your child had a birthday, you invited a whole bunch of people to come as families, which we hadn't done for a long time. My last birthday was at 10 age. Everybody's birthday was.

35:30 You didn't have any more stretched it.

35:37 I think what I got most from that is the appreciation of I just meant so much to me to slow down now, it seems even faster faster and faster, but that was a good experience when it started changing tire changing faster to

35:55 I did I've got to tell you about the undead violent. I did work as a substitute also the American school and I was going to teach them dancing and I went got money from them for English 300 some dollars to buy the music and recording this I needed.

36:14 And I was doing that and I was taking dancing and in England and I got a phone call that the family John of the children you can you meant attention.

36:28 Oh dear, we're leaving Ethiopia and he had been called in by the information services and I was kind of scary we sent the girl to

36:43 Katrina's house, but wasn't serious, but we were some of the last the military American Military had already left and so it was

36:54 They put the prices up so high that we probably would have had to leave anyway pretty soon on the rent, but

37:03 So they came to England and Durham as a matter of fact where I was doing some dancing and what did I think of it all I'm going to rock and roll led me to

37:22 How to get to go to Ethiopia, I mean do you ever think of yourself realize how Brave and

37:30 Different you are like this how you made all these choices that are so unique in your family. And in most people's lives. Most people don't move to foreign countries with small babies.

37:44 And then live there their Revolution. I mean, I don't think about that. Now when you making choices will you're making me think about that? So that's I think about that.

37:55 I like that I like that and

38:01 I appreciate you asking me to talk.

38:08 Because I would never do it without.

38:11 The encouragement you gave me.

38:14 So, thank you. You're welcome. Thank you.