Stephanie Young and Shannon Els

00:04 I am Stephanie Young. I'm 37. Today is Friday October 23rd 2020. I'm recording in Alton, Illinois. My partner is Shannon Els and she is my friend.

00:19 And I am Shannon L. I am 29 years old. Today is Friday, October 23rd 2020 and I'm recording from Portland, Maine.

00:38 Do you want to eat talk a little bit about I mean we met obviously at college, but like how are you like really started our friendship and you know, the project that we should have started working on together. Yeah, I guess I wonder if we have different perspective like as when we first started because

00:58 I don't remember how many months it was until like after that. I moved back to Alton and when your husband Chris Lee approached me and was like Stephanie's been thinking about doing this podcast about Alta and then and that was after I had been diving is Alton a little bit. So he knew that I was also really interested in alternate learning more. So I guess that's how it like started started cuz then I texted you or something and I had no idea what I wanted to do it on and I knew I wanted to like make it more about storytelling your community and Crystal cycle Shannon and my back would be really cool. And yeah, I just remember our first meeting and it was like so obvious that this was the right like topic because you were so passionate about all that any news.

01:58 Watch about it already and we had just moved here and we've been in the area but we didn't know that much about all sin and like, you know, you were already like I said so involved and so it was like the perfect fit and then as usual I think we had the same goals for what the podcast to do. We want the same thing. And so it's kind of funny. I didn't quickly like I feel like you immediately we started talking about you know, what we wanted to cover how we wanted to do it what the name would be the logo like it was it was a fun process and then

02:36 You know how quickly I quickly came together and I think I don't I can't really remember exactly when

02:46 I jump back into wanting to know about Alta and I moved back from DC. Well, that's where I grew up.

02:55 I knew I wanted to not live there and I think back to the Midwest this where we went to college and

03:02 I wanted to dive into community and I think it felt more approachable honestly and Alton than it was where I'm from in Arlington, Virginia. It felt like

03:12 Just the energy there. There's something there's something about Alton that was another thing that we connected on. We're like, there's something we can't really figure it out. We can't really pinpoint it just yet.

03:25 And I and I wonder if it's it's it's just the whole like combination of historic. There's people who grew up there and are they who stay there and who who loves like connecting people together. It just felt really

03:44 I don't know if that's small town. I guess we're just different than the Metropolis I came from. Yeah, I agree like having it be a small-town helps and and you're right like we knew there was something to tell right we knew there was incredible history. I mean, you know, you just Google Alton and you learn about love joy and Lincoln and

04:08 Wadlow hands, but then yeah, I think what we eventually found like you said like there's people here who have been here for generations and their families have been here for generations. And there's such Pride right in the town. And so we started looking into just you know, why the text book history lessons about Alzheimer took place in Alton. We started uncovering like these stories right from people who actually like either lived them or whose families were affected by them and it was just cool for the evolution. You know why I keep thinking back to my first two episodes. Where is somehow we managed to cover all the vault in history in 40 minutes, which is crazy and episode on the right and then we talked about Lovejoy, which was great in NY. We interviewed people to give us sort of this.

05:08 Access those two episodes were very much like here are the facts. Here's the history and I really like before it's like, you know, we went into it being like, okay, you know, we wanted to talk about the history without Rocky Fork was started and so we went to the church and we met and Brian who knew a lot about the history and who who go there but like what happened was

05:38 We uncovered like this Rich story about the people who like me like a rich friend sent but he lives there he grew up there in the fifties and sixties. And so yeah, they gave us like the quick facts about how Rocky Fork started but then we got this incredible story about what it was like to grow up there how how meaningful that's that place has to him. You know, he can you take us out to like where he used to live in her house like it's so overgrown but you can still see the ferns that has mom has planted right along the road and like, you know, all of a sudden it was like, okay there is way more to the story here and it's it's human stories and I just think that was so cool cuz you're not going to read that in a text book, right? They're not Legends anymore. They're just there. Yeah, you're speaking to the descendants of the family that has taken care of this land or move to this land for certain reasons like you feel more connected and

06:38 I need the energy being that it's easy to know who is selling into a smaller town where I can get to know people and it didn't feel as mundane like their daily routines aren't as mundane right feel like you're able to slow down a little bit and to say hello and to see how everyone's doing and it and that's in me with something that I didn't really have practice with being from a bigger city. I don't know why it just it just felt more mechanical but an alternate helps me slow down because there are the stories because people have been there for Generations. You just are yeah you're curious and

07:31 And everyone's willing to share their story and that was the other thing that's made it so easy and it we're so grateful that we had the chance to to meet people great like that. It couldn't have happened if people weren't so open.

07:48 Yeah, yeah and broccoli and now it's so cool cuz you know how many people you know that we talked to you in there like thank you for asking me like, you know, I'm not a historian. Why would you talk to me but they were so grateful and they were excited to share the other stories and I mean in DC you're not going to walk into a coffee shop and see 10 people, you know, right and I'm and I love like feeling so much more connected to the community and seeing people but I've gotten to know on a daily basis or or meeting someone and think that you're connected to this person. I just learned this incredible story about them and I'm just so grateful for the podcast has made me feel so much more connected to this community and if you like a part of it which

08:43 Is kind of rare these days I think but it's needed and yeah, it's really cool.

08:51 Yeah, it's funny having lived in Alton and then moving to Portland Maine that transition. So you do you go from Alton and then reportedly still remain as a small state as well. You know, what the population being smaller but

09:07 Going into a bigger city. I did feel like I learned how to connect with the people that I need to run into every day a little bit better. Like I feel like Alton is Tommy these lessons of don't be afraid to ask somebody how they're doing. You do to slow down a little bit. So it's because ultimately when you're in a city, there are Pockets that are neighborhoods. And so that was one of the biggest lesson of learning from from Alton was was finding those people that you think that you won't see me, but

09:41 There aren't yeah you like living circles. So, you know.

09:50 So do what it takes to be a Community member or you know, we talked a lot about why Community is important but like to be an active member of a community and you know, we talked about like it does it takes to work it's you know, you have to be active and you have to actually try and show up two things which you know, I think you were doing and I'll send and then fired me to do that. But you know, you have to show up you have to get to know people and show that you're invested in and Care like he's not really going to come to you always you have to be ready willing. And and I think that's great cuz you know, you know you have learned and tried to do that and Portland as well and it's not a scary thought. I know it's so terrifying.

10:41 Are sitting in the back of the room as different events in and going in originally, I would go in and be like, okay, I'm going to like meet X Y and Z and I really get something out of it for whatever and I'm going in with an open mind I learned that was the better your open today.

11:07 Social learning the flow and the language and the culture of this community that you're wanting to get to know and I'm trying to remember what some of the events we are going to.

11:22 And then you can hang for that really cool event on Martin Luther King jr. Day at the post at the coffee shop. But yeah, and you head on it, like a lot of it is been wet. All time has taught me is it showing up but also being humble enough to sit back and listen, right? Like we knew we didn't want to come in and be like here all day and here's what you need to know, or maybe we can a sitting back and listening and learning from from Alton and also onions about what they wanted to hear or talk about or no more about and so that was a good lesson for me too. And I think of Outsiders right we were pretty cautious in the beginning knowing like we didn't want to be these two girls from somewhere else seeing, you know, thinking that we knew

12:22 Why they made it about their own History Society looks like or acts like and

12:38 Not that we don't still have those opinions but more so asking the question of why and how did it get to how is Alton in this place start? And where does it need to go? And where do alternans want it to go and with Alton being

12:58 A place where I think there are more people moving to Alton.

13:04 That relationship between both been there for generations and newbies is also really interesting a hard-on on their town but they're also very protective of it. And so yeah, I have any kind of navigate that and it being open and honest and saying yeah, we're not from here. We're interested in that like again tell us tell us what what you think the world needs to know about all sin or what other people need to know here and also need to know about itself. And so yeah, it's been dating that live in a City Portland Maine I would argue is so transient and most people aren't from Portland Maine and so it's funny being on the other side of that right when he said of living somewhere where Generations

13:55 I want been there. It's now a lot more of new new thinking and just outside perspective coming in and saying this is you know, how we how we want to get things done and there's a lot of clash of cultures to so it's fascinating to see how how cities shift, you know, depending on who's there? Yeah, I think in this happening so many places right at the start of transient new people moving in and out either certain neighborhoods ER or cities of the hole and and I think that's where we would have lost sometimes that sense of community, right cuz it's really hard on people are coming and going cuz they're not they don't have they don't take ownership in the community that they know. They're only going to be there for a year or two until I think it becomes a challenge and I don't quite know how you overcome that.

14:49 Yeah. Yeah, right. I was terrified to tell people that I was moved.

15:01 Alton, I love Alton I care about it so much and the decision to move was not you know, it wasn't that easy one. But because you started to develop that loyalty in that cuz it's just you feel so embraced by community and you feel like you're not that you're letting me down but it's more of you just won't be a part of it. Right like you won't be able to to be there in the meeting started to cheer someone on so far but then you remember we're going back to when we started. Like I said, he knew we knew we had these bigger names bigger aspects of History. Wanted to cover.

15:47 I mean, do you remember like what were some of the things that we were told like? Oh, you need to look into this more or that you you uncovered or we can cover together or whatever that we were like. Oh, this is different like we we need to make sure we're sharing this.

16:04 I think it was the biggest. Aha moment was a free state versus lays State. I don't remember what do dents. Yeah just Bonkers that yes you it was sort of that part of history that you overlooked. You're like, oh, yeah, Illinois, there's probably a lot of tension but I think with that research, I really like it clicked for me that it is about your neighbors like it is about who you're surrounded by because it is a daily decision whether you feel protected or not based off of the people that are around you and and that right that goes back to community of whether you feel safe. And if you don't feel safe, then you stay where you feel safe.

17:00 So yeah, it's funny.

17:04 I think about that now to when I'm when there's a lot of different different communities are coming together and have different perspectives of what is safe. And what is right and what is wrong? Yeah. I think that was a big research topic for me. Yeah. Deeper and it wasn't us it was the people were talking to me no more about these issues. But I agree like, you know in school will you learn like the basics about slavery about like you said what it means to be a free state or slave state but it's so much dirtier than it was bad. I mean the codes in the laws that were put in place and you know, I never learned about that. So that was really really interesting.

18:04 Right, so it wasn't even like that people decided. This is how we're going to live that. This is their told this is how you're going to spend. So there's so much controversy this kind of Stew histories in Alton, right? We kept hearing that there is the white history and then is heard of The Untold, you know, black history and that isn't always shared it mean again, that's the first thing that pop up when you Google also in our Lincoln Lovejoy probably and the tallest man in the world like in haunted or there's so much more and so that was really cool to start uncovering some of those stories.

19:03 And then to give them a voice that's been that's been really interesting and the Highlight, you know, some of the people who really help build up the oldest town that don't get recognized as much and so that that was really interesting and it's when you know how to keep on covering that I'm one of a culture shift or just more people listening or telling story like feeling confident to tell stories. Have you experienced that

19:39 Yeah, I think the little bit I mean the episode that I did on Mexico the Mexico neighborhood which you know wasn't all black community and sort of remains to say that a little bit although it's very transient. But yeah it mean that was that it was eye-opening for me because you know, I spoke to probably 10 to 12 Elders what they call themselves who all grew up there or who live there now and uncovered incredible stories about the history, but also about some of the lake stereotypes surrounding the community the issue that faces now, but every single one of them like they had never share the story before they had never been asked it wasn't just about talking about Mexico, but we covered raised a little bit and I'm doing an episode right now. That's all about race and they're just like we don't have these conversations. I mean, maybe we do with our family or

20:39 But they have a platform where someone is actually like wanting to hear them and then share them that's a really cool and I and I have made friends through these interviews and one in particular and she said to me it's not just because of all town but like the more she starts talking because in her sixties now and she's like for the first time in my life, like I'm ready to speak up speak out and I'm way more active and I want to talk about race and you're being a black woman and voting in all the issues surrounding my community. I'm so that's been so so cool, you know to sort of see that happenin to see people should have open up and

21:24 And talk to your cat for the first time really about some of these issues at least to a stranger right again, they're having these conversations with people they know but I have a stranger come in and the story's been knowing. It's going to be heard by.

21:40 Some people have no idea how many people actually it's great. And I'm yeah, I'm grateful that and I hope if it inspires like continue to speak up then. That's fantastic. How do you work at the library in the catalog are there in the library for anyone to listen, which is cool. And then, you know, we've been talking to you about doing other side projects for oral history type project as soon as people, you know, the black community in Allston is saying hey like we have stories to tell me want to tell them and so I've been talking to a few people about different ways to help get those stories not just share that also record it in the archives.

22:40 That is what community is, right. You have to hear from everyone and and and make sure that everyone feels included and balance. Oh, yeah, and the country do you need to be doing One, Nevada?

22:56 And I'm listening right? It's really just about listening to each other.

23:04 Yeah, I think that was the other thing where it was practicing active listening is so incredibly important and and something that takes a practice really and there are people who are naturally gifted out this thing, but I think it's the active component words being fully present in that moment.

23:27 Yeah, yeah that was

23:30 That was a tricky thing and it still continues to be a an area. I want to get better at

23:36 Yeah, yeah, same and sharing your story like I asked you.

23:44 I can tell me.

23:47 Yeah, I guess I mean, you know, there's times where I might but I don't think that's my story that interesting. You know, I definitely

23:56 I'm always happy to talk to somebody but

24:01 I've lived a pretty sheltered privileged life and all honesty. And so there's not like but normally when people want to talk to people or they ask me questions that I would rather talk about talk about now, like what I've learned from other people and this work that I'm doing and that's me is way more interesting and exciting and I guess that has become my story as well. But you know, what about you? I feel like you're always pretty open open on a personal level.

24:39 That's something I'm struggling with right now cuz they went back to grad school and in our graduate program is very much about reflection and contemplative studies and I feel like I don't have a voice. Yeah, I agree and there is a part of me that enjoyed asking other people questions mostly because I do think that it's important for

25:15 For me to ask questions rather than so. It's no push agendas or two through the asking as you said you're learning and you're opening yourself up to the community.

25:29 But Aid I have realized that there is a more.

25:34 I guess.

25:36 But yeah, I'm just maybe is I'm out of practice of sharing a story. I feel terrible story of Hitler. And so I love it when other people can tell stories. I'd rather ask questions and listen to somebody then talk about myself. So I totally agree with that. I think that was the first thing that you said really cold last recorded, you know, our story our conversation story was

26:14 But it is good.

26:18 That's fun.

26:20 Yeah, that is that you know.

26:23 Yeah, it's good to to share perspectives, and we do have things to share an interesting I think so and so again when you're looking back.

26:41 You know, I know that you aren't as connected with all time now, although in my mind you are every time I talk about all time. I say we you know, you were still very much but like you think of our original goals were pleased you think we have accomplished them or

27:03 Yeah, I think I'm original goals. We did me and I've been thinking a lot about goals lately and how

27:10 There's a Namek like by Nature. I suppose they've all right. And so initially I think we just wanted to tell stories that weren't super mainstream and I think we did I think you are telling stories that aren't you know about Robert Wadlow or or diving more into what the Underground Railroad actually looks like. I'm meant to be and how it operated. I think they are goals for that and

27:45 The way that like the timing of all town to was pretty special because it was around like the small business Revolution came in and then I'll just work showed up there word after I had last and just let the energy I have really addressing some of these.

28:07 Under the surface questions intentions with was in the community, I think people

28:14 Not all people but I think there is a number of people who felt okay and comfortable like sharing their their questions and insecurities.

28:24 Yeah Yeah Yeahs solutely agree it like it was the timing was kind of perfect cuz there was the energy and excitement I'm happening all throughout town and so it was fun to sort of order that help engage people and I'm obviously covid-19

29:25 Bring us together that help us understand each other. Our communities are history how we got there what we're still facing and an enviable to like you empathize and respect each other even if we don't agree and so I think that was at the Forefront to like being, you know, really conscious of that and I hope you know, we've met that or continue to I know I know we've gotten positive feedback and people there preciate it up different episodes, but I think of asking why right and

30:06 At what is so somebody completely disagrees with you or lives their life in a very different way. I think our tendency or at least

30:16 Something that I've maybe because I had become a habit of is I stopped asking why and that was definitely a goal of all town is to explore is the dive into okay. Is that like that is how you think right now why I like tell me you know, how did you grow up like and as a nation we're beginning to break that down. I think finally and it's uncomfortable. Yeah. Yeah.

30:52 We're able to ask questions, right so.

30:57 But we're not.

31:04 Will in the whole wild thing, you know that gets back to listening. I mean as soon as you asked that question, you know, you're inviting someone to share and and you're putting yourself in this single sitting back to listen to buy and I we need to ask that more and you know, if you're talking to someone and then you don't agree but you can ask that why then you can sit there and actually listen and better understand where they're coming from and that is cute and you're right. It is uncomfortable. Like we are having tough conversations of the nation right now and it's not always fun, but like it has to happen. And yeah, and I think it's important to not be reactionary.

31:45 Asking those questions kind of like stops you from immediately lashing out or

31:54 Or having those days. I think we had to learn a lot of nonverbal cues right to because in the early recordings that uses we would always verbally say they like and it's so hard to kind of edit that out because we would be overpowering the interview.

32:19 Awesome. Another I opening.

32:26 Piece of communication is all the nonverbal which I guess we're finding on do now is that is or practicing the truth?

32:36 Yep. Yeah, and the other thing that I've been learning to you, especially when we're talking about maybe some of these heavier topics like race is being comfortable with silence, you know, like especially if you knew you were a great interviewer and you did most of the interviews and when you left I was terrified cuz like I don't know I'm going to have to start asking the questions now and you know as I went into some of that Lake, you know, I would ask a question I get this great great response or something. That would make me think and I'll be like, oh gosh no question and and being able to like sit back and reflect on on an answer.

33:17 Or yeah or and not even when you're interviewing but it's okay to have silence while you both like, you know digest what was just said or are you know, I'm thinking about what to say next to you like you don't have to fill every moment with

33:35 You don't know words like we can be uncomfortable just started sitting in it, and it's reflecting together. And so that's been a really good lesson to it is uncomfortable or awkward, but I just gave myself permission to be able to like something and yeah, I remember us like remembering to go into things saying okay, is that the gist of the questions but so open to wherever it kind of leaves you because that's where we actually got to the Heart of Heart of some good stories because we didn't have an agenda. How could we even know that those stories existed if we so good questions?

34:27 Is in itself a course, right? Right, right up randomly and one of our interviews and that was that was really cool.

34:45 But yeah, when I think we always said that everybody few we were like, we don't really have an agenda. Yeah, we'd like to maybe you your perspective on Elijah Lovejoy, but you know talk to us and we uncover really. Just by my being open and listening and and I think other episodes were so deformed out of being able to do that. You know, we had a list of like only think we want to cover these things and then like now, I'm just like I kind of let all things going to tell me what's going to come next or the world, you know, which I think is a testament to how great of Storytelling like how great of a Storyteller a lot of alternatives are

35:29 Does natural again like I don't have that skill what your childhood was like, I don't know if I could really share that and so that's another thing. I so appreciate about the individuals that we interview is.

35:53 Easter story in our ability to share and a very articulate and fun way.

36:01 It's true. Yeah, they're all natural and maybe that comes with time and you know as we get older but yeah, I agree. Like I'm always put a blown away at like how easy it is for people to open up and talk about whatever it is. They're talking about. It's been fun feel like they've made me a lot braver.

36:24 In that vulnerability of being asked, you know, what are you thinking?

36:30 There are still alive topic. I'm terrified to actually share opinions on just mostly because I haven't formed my opinion on them yet, but

36:41 Totally. Yeah, and I think that

36:46 You know, we were able to get people to open up so much to us because you know, you know, we came in like being very open and honest and again like with no agenda, right? Like I think people were able to sort of see that we were just there wanting to learn from them. And again, we weren't trying to inform anything or pretend that we knew more than friends and that's been really cool to to learn how to be humble and just sit there and listen and then people I think about it right away from us like, oh you're genuinely curious like you wanted to know about this will great and you know with our time together and then continue on like I've never had someone who wasn't willing to talk and I think that's really great to it. You know it definitely

37:39 It takes going into something with humility and openness and and not I think really helped you. Where you live and love where you are and know that there are so many things under the surface that you just don't see on your on the daily basis, right or he don't see around you and that was another motivating factor or I guess you could say it's somewhat selfish, but you're seeking, you know, the good in that you're being pushed outside of your small circle to say, I know that there's something I don't understand. There are other people who can help me with this.

38:23 And what's your name? I think I think you need to start a podcast from Portland. You would be amazing. Thank you or even pretty sweet the rivertowns. I mean, there's plenty of Rivertown. We should do a comparative of industrial river towns and how they have been flow.

38:46 And we have the Lovejoy. Can I get home and Lovejoy an Abolitionist Movement is something another thing I've been exploring to is how come up with the social justice movement recently of of how there's not much that we really understand like we sort of talked about abolitionists as like morally good but there's so many layers that we need to break down one of those.

39:22 From spending my summers in the county that Elijah lovejoy's born in.

39:27 Very small world

39:31 Going as I always say all roads lead back to open all parts of History. They just lean back to open this song Summer cabin. We pulled a western wood box out of ammunition.

39:58 Well, I'm really happy you agreed to do this with me. It was really fun. We don't get to be on this side of the microphone.

40:13 I think so. I enjoyed it. I got some.

40:18 Yeah, it got me thinking of another but I do I do think I'll Town should continue as like in another state. Yeah, I agree.