Vallie Jackson, Julie Turner, and Katherine Spencer

[00:05] VALLIE JACKSON: My name is Julie Turner I'm 61 years old. Today's date is July 15, 2023. I am in Sonoya, Georgia, and my relationship to the two ladies who are with me is that I am the other child. Valley Jackson is my other mother, and Kathy Spencer is my sister.

[00:30] JULIE TURNER: And miss Valli. I am Valerie Valerie Jackson I am 87 years old. Today is July 15, 2023. I am in Sonora, Georgia, and I'm here with my other children.

[00:51] VALLIE JACKSON: And I am Katherine Spencer My family and friends call me Kathy, age 74. Today is July 15, 2023. I'm in Sonoya, Georgia, and I am here with my other mother and my youngest sister.

[01:13] JULIE TURNER: Okay.

[01:14] VALLIE JACKSON: All right, so here we go. All right. So I'll ask the first question. You have a large family, and you have a large church family. What is your role in those families?

[01:29] JULIE TURNER: My role in the family is I am the leader in my family. I'm the third out of seven, and everybody clings to me, get my ideas. Once you know how to do this and how to do that, that in my family. So in my church family, I walked into church for 30, as a secretary for 30 years. So I handled that well so I could always put programs together. And even since I've been here or on vacation or when something goes not happened correctly at my church, they called me to get some ideas from me of how to do this, and they always tell me that when I get a program together, it always comes out successfully. So that's my important part of a church member. I'm faithful. I am well devoted to my church. I'm well devoted to my family. I love my family. I love my church family. So everything just works out well. All things works good for those that love the Lord.

[02:47] VALLIE JACKSON: Amen. And you're a mother in your church?

[02:51] JULIE TURNER: Yes, I am.

[02:52] VALLIE JACKSON: You've been honored for the years that you've been a mother recently you were honored?

[02:57] JULIE TURNER: Yes. I was ordained in 20,000. I mean, 2000. What is it?

[03:05] VALLIE JACKSON: 2000?

[03:06] JULIE TURNER: Yeah, 2000. And so I've been a faithful mother there or love walking there as being a mother. I work, so my job is being, walking on communion, selling the wine and the crackers, whatever, preparing them, trying to say, preparing it. So I have enjoyed that. And I always walk faithfully, cheerfully happy. And I always want to encourage other people to do the same, to be faithful, to be cheerful, to be a cheerful giver, and just extend your love and your compassion to other people. That's what it's all about. And this, to me, this is pleasing unto us, the Lord, and your own.

[03:59] VALLIE JACKSON: Three children, even though they're all three successful adults, still call you regularly for your advice and leadership and lean on you?

[04:09] JULIE TURNER: Absolutely. Yes, they do.

[04:10] VALLIE JACKSON: Tell us their names.

[04:12] JULIE TURNER: I have three. My oldest one is Sheila Renee Jacks. Sheila Renee. Stay to me.

[04:20] VALLIE JACKSON: Sorry.

[04:21] JULIE TURNER: She's married and I have a. When did you tell age? Sheila is six. She will be 61. 63.

[04:33] VALLIE JACKSON: She'll be 63.

[04:34] JULIE TURNER: I'm sorry. Sheila will be 63 in December. December 1. She will be 63. 2nd is Reginald Jackson and he is 61. 3rd is Lewis Vincent Jackson Jim Jerry. He's a minister and he is 58. So I'm so proud and happy with my three children and I dedicate them to the Lord. And this is what happened. I mean, he granted my wish.

[05:09] VALLIE JACKSON: And so, are your brothers and sisters as connected to God as you are now?

[05:17] JULIE TURNER: Oh, definitely, yes. When we was growing up, it was we didn't have a choice because my mom and dad, my dad was an usher. My mom was a mother of the church. So we have a choice. We can stay at home. Sundays was always a church day, so we had to be in the house of the Lord and we had to be quite alike. When we was in the house of the Lord, there was no sleeping, no talking. We had to participate, and that was, I think, upstanding. The choir and my children. Sheila was a junior issue. My brothers, they didn't do any participating, like working or something like that, but they was really good. We all was well trained in the church, and right now we still keep the same pattern as we did when we was growing up. We love the Lord. We love the church.

[06:19] VALLIE JACKSON: And Louis is a minister.

[06:20] JULIE TURNER: Is a minister, yes. My youngest son is a minister. He lives in South Carolina, and he's been ministry for about five years now. So God has blessed him to have his own building, church. And it's not a full floor house now, but after we hit the pandemic, you know, members stopped coming and they watch it on tv now at home. So when I told him, you said, just don't give up. Just keep the faith. You know, there's a season for everything, so just wait and be patient. Wait on the good lord, and he will supply all your needs. I like the one. Philippians 419. He said, my God shall supply all your needs according to his riches and God. Thank you.

[07:12] VALLIE JACKSON: All right, so, Valley, can you tell us about where you were born and what it was like growing up in a family of sharecroppers on a plantation?

[07:21] JULIE TURNER: Yes. I was born in Oak Ridge, Louisiana. That's small town out from Bastrop, Louisiana. And I was born in the 1936 there. And in 1940 is when we start. I can remember stuff here in 1940. And we live on this plantation, and this person that owned the plantation was named Eugene Barnes. And houses was there, but there wasn't nice homes. There wasn't insulated. They had a fireplace, didn't have our indoor bathrooms, and we didn't have lights. We had to use lamps because it was back in the forties. So I think we had. So it was very, very cold there. And we had to do a farm with the farm, cotton picking time, corn, and raise our own vegetables and stuff like that. But during the cotton picking time, well, Mama had, which is my mother's name, Maddie. Well, she had an arm baby and a knee baby, so she couldn't have a sitter, so she had to carry us out in the field with her. And so while she was walking, so she walked from sun up to sundown. And every day wasn't off day, every day until harvest time. So. And then at lunchtime, she would go back home, build a fire in the old wooden stove, and cook dinner and bring it all back down in the field where we were. And we always sit down on the in and out cotton sacks, and she would feed us our dinner along with my dad. And then after that, she had to go back to work, so there was never no more resting time for her. And then she would have chop cotton kit cotton along with us until 06:00 in the evening. Then she'd go home in the afternoon, and there was time to prepare dinner for nighttime, so she would be worn out, exhausted. So at an early age, when I was about six or seven or eight, well, she had a stool, and she had to stand me up at the stool so I could help her prepare the dinner at nighttime. I should be a great, great cook, but I chose not to be a cook. But I was helping my mom because.

[10:13] VALLIE JACKSON: She makes good cornbread.

[10:15] JULIE TURNER: Yes.

[10:15] VALLIE JACKSON: Cornbread, yes.

[10:17] JULIE TURNER: But I was helping my mom because it was hard on her with babies and armed babies and knee babies and stuff like that. So at nighttime, we have running water, and we had to have these big number two tubs. We had three, I think. Yeah, tubs. And we were bathed at night and had to heat the water on the stove, and it was just really, really hard. And we all would start with the young baby. Put the baby. The baby will bathe first. The next oldest shower. Bathe. We're all bathed in the same water and used the same towels or something and dry it off because we had to. We have a washer or dryer, and we had to hang clothes on side and the clothesline. So, mom, we had to cut those things short to save some time. And then time. The iron clothes, we didn't have the iron. The electrons that would float in because there was no electricity. We had kerosene lamps get the light up, and we had to keep the globe cleaned because it would smoke up. So we had to clean the globes up once a week. But it was just. It was hard. Hard. But I guess we got along okay, but it wasn't easy.

[11:41] VALLIE JACKSON: Can you. So you moved from Oak Ridge to Monroe, Louisiana, which is probably the 45 minutes away. So you moved from Oak Ridge to Monroe when you were eight years old. Can you tell us why your dad moved your family off the plantation?

[12:02] JULIE TURNER: Yes. It was, like I said, it was hard. Hard. And the person that owned the plantation, well, it wasn't harvest time, but when the corn and the cotton got a certain height, where you call it laying in Dubai, you have to work in the field. And so the boss came out one day and asked for my dad. My dad wasn't there. So my dad, after he lay by, he would go to Monroe to get another job so he can have funds for the family. So at that particular time, my dad was in Monroe, and the boss came by and asked for my dad. And we said he wasn't there. So he said, well, where's your mom? So we went inside and got. Mom came out, and he told her that he's on his horse, had his big head on his head, his pipe and everything. He said, out in that field, you got some tall Johnson grass, and I want you to get out there, and I want. Monday morning, I want you to get out there and, you know, cut it all down. So they aggravated my mother. So she. Her brother lives about a half a block away. So she went over and told her brother about it. So that Monday morning, we all was out there. They was all out there, know, chopping the grass down and stuff like that. So that Friday, when my daddy came home, my mom told my dad about this, and he was aggravated about it also. So within his mind, he said, I assume he said, this is it. I want a better life for my family. So we moved to Monroe, and then he bought some property there, like one lot, which was very, very cheap. At that time, it was about $150. And we didn't pay it all at one time. We paid it on an installment, like $5 per week. When my daddy got paid or $10 or something like that until we paid $150 out. And so daddy built a little three bedroom, three bedroom house there for us because it was a three bedroom or three room, three room house at that time. You call it a shotgun house, but the rooms is just one, you know.

[14:39] VALLIE JACKSON: Straight across behind each other.

[14:41] JULIE TURNER: Yeah. And so that's what happened. So we lived there, and the family of seven, it was seven kids, plus my mom and dad. There was nine people living in a little three house house. So still there was no lights, and there was no indoor bathroom. There was no running water. But some months later, we got lights, and some years later, we got a bathroom inside. And we was very, very happy about that. But some years later, then daddy got a better job. He bought that, and he made a lot of money. He worked three ships at a time to make money to support his family. So he had. He added another room, and so that was mom and dad's room then. So we all had to sleep on cots or photo beds or something like that, but through it all, we made it.

[15:50] VALLIE JACKSON: And valley, when you moved to Monroe, you said your mother didn't have to go out and work anymore. She was able to stay home and be a housewife and tend to you children and support your father and so forth like that. So she didn't have to work outside anymore.

[16:09] JULIE TURNER: No, she did not. She wanted to because she wanted to earn her own money, but they insist that she would stay and take care of the children. So at that time, that was in 19, removed from my. From Oak Bridge in 1945, and so about saved out in the fifties. And I was. I was in the third grade when we moved from Oak Ridge, so. And then we thing was getting better after my daddy got a better job, or we started eating better. We always had our own garden and stuff like that. We always had plenty of vegetables, and we always had plenty of this and this and that. But it just, like, think life got much easier or something when we moved to manure. But you still have some hard times, though.

[17:11] VALLIE JACKSON: So, Valley, you grew up when american society was still segregated. What experiences would you like to share about that time? You know, living in Jim Crow times?

[17:23] JULIE TURNER: Oh, okay. One day I was. I was. I was a teenager then, and I had an experience with the bus driver, with the city bus. One day, I was coming from. I forgot where I was coming from now, but they are, at that time, the blacks and the whites. The whites sit in the front, blacks in the back. And when the bus driver opened the door, you step on the bus you go and put your money in the container. Then you walk back off the bus and go back to the back of the bus to the back door, and then you walk in there, and it was a section for the blacks to sit on. So at this particular time, I was sitting there, and the front of the bus, it was full with all whites. So I'm sitting at the. Where the blacks were supposed to be sitting, and this guy was standing up in front of me, and a white guy was standing up. Your white guy was standing in front of me, holding on to the rails, you know. So the bus driver looked in his mirror, and he saw this guy standing there, and he looked at me and he said, girl, don't you see that man standing there? Get up and give him your seat. So the guy looked down and he said, he looked at the bus driver. He told him, oh, that's okay. I'm fine. So he helped on. So. And then another time. And even though if there was no white on the bus, we still can sit in the front part of the bus, but they always sit in the. In the rear. We were not allowed to go there. That was another time I experienced something. Excuse me. Before I came to my room, I experienced this, that it was a truck came on up the street, and there was two white guys driving this truck. And they had this black guy, they had him chained down, had him handcuffed. Not handcuffed, tied him to the rope, and had him dragging him behind this truck. And if we lived 3 miles from one way to town, and he drove around one pavement, it was a rock roll. And he was dragging this guy behind the struck. And he was sweaty, and he was. He was afraid. And I looked at him. I was looking. I was. I looked at him, and he was so afraid, but wasn't allowed to say anything to him or to the drivers. If he said something to them, man, they would have gripped us, kicked us, or put us in the truck. It's the same thing with us. So we didn't say anything, but it just touched my heart to see how he was being treated. And another incident was, when we go to a movie, they had movies for whites, they had movies for blacks, and the whites had to go up. They went upstairs, and we had to go through a different door. We had different Water fountains with. And our fountain would say for colored, and the other fountain was said for whites. And so we just couldn't do things. We couldn't say things that penalized, but we'll be mistreated, so we're staying in.

[21:07] VALLIE JACKSON: Our space, you had a separate section, only that you were allowed to sit in at the theater.

[21:13] JULIE TURNER: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.

[21:16] VALLIE JACKSON: I remember that as a little girl. Also that there was a separate door and a separate ticket window and that y'all had to go way up some narrow stairs.

[21:28] JULIE TURNER: Yeah.

[21:29] VALLIE JACKSON: To get to your, your area, the movie theaters.

[21:34] JULIE TURNER: Right. And sometimes we would be there, sit in it, and then you throw popcorn at us, you know, down on us. I mean, we was upstairs, but when we was over, say slate words to us, you know, the n word, and nothing we could do about it, you know, we couldn't talk back to them or anything like that. So they would throw popcorn on, they would spit on us, whatever they want to do, we couldn't do anything about it. So.

[22:01] VALLIE JACKSON: So Kathy and our brothers and our sister, who's deceased, Susan. We always called you our other mother, and you call us your other children. Do you want to explain that relationship?

[22:17] JULIE TURNER: Oh, yes. Okay. This is after I had graduate from high school, and then I didn't go to college right then, so I was 62 years old. I decided to go to college. So during that time, I worked for Julie and Kathy's mother, mister and misses Ellington. I worked for them 52 years. Kathy was eight years old. Her older sister was ten years old. Julie wasn't even born. So I worked there 52 years. And what a pleasure. Oh, it was the sweetest people that I ever met. Or the kids were just wonderful. They were, well, polite. They treated me as an adult. They treated me as a person. It's just awesome. It's hard to explain. I didn't have to suffer anything. Suffer or anything. They even gave me 52 years. I worked there. I own five cars. They gave me five cars. They gave me my gas credit card, anything by gas for the car. They were just awesome to me, and I really appreciate that. And I love them to death. And they are still doing that today. They are extending love. They extend their hands to me, and they are here now with me. Right now. I'm in Julie's house. Right now I'm here visiting my son. But Julie wanted me to come to spend two weeks in our house, so I'm here. So. And I called Kathy, and I said, kathy, if you want a vacation, I am going to Julia's house for ten days from July 10 through July 23. If you want to have some fun, come and join me. Now I am inviting somebody else to come. I'm inviting Cathy to come to Judith's house and without her permission. So we have had a wonderful time.

[24:27] VALLIE JACKSON: We have had a good time. So, you know, you worked for my family for 52 years and I, you know, one of the things you said is that my parents quit on you. You didn't quit on my parents because, you know, at that time my parents were, I think, 88 or 87 years old. And my mother really needed more intensive care in a nursing home facility and dad decided to move into the adjoining assisted living. But you were with them all those years and in the end helped take care of them and, and she still came to the nursing home assisted living and visited, checked on them and was their friend visited them and, you know, one of them prayed with them. One of the things I remember, Valley and you and I talked about this is that in our home there was a guest room with a guest bath and that you, I always remember when.

[25:26] JULIE TURNER: You needed to go to the restroom.

[25:27] VALLIE JACKSON: You used the guest bathroom like you didn't have to go to a certain bathroom or anything. And you talked to me about that a little bit about what it was like working for mom and dad and how it was maybe different than other households from the fifties. Yes, and sixties.

[25:47] JULIE TURNER: I didn't only use the guest bathroom, I used mom bathroom. I use your bathroom. I was everywhere with a bathroom outside would be going to go square. I was calling Mud Bath anywhere I wanted to go. I could use anything in that house I wanted to, or the dishes, the glasses or whatever, do the cooking, whatever. There was no difference there. I was just more than welcome there. So I was well liked by there. And at least they showed it to me. It was great. It was wonderful there.

[26:21] VALLIE JACKSON: And you said that my parents really trusted you.

[26:23] JULIE TURNER: They trust me in their home because I worked with another lady. Just I did her ironing for her sometimes. And so she put some money in this pocket of the husband's shirt and it was a knot and I couldn't iron open. I said, wonder what's going on here? So I checked the pocket and I looked in, and that was the money in the pocket. So she had another housemaid there that was taking care of the cooking and the kids. So I turned to her, I said, she put some money in this pocket here. She said, well, tell her when she come back. I said, okay, I will. So when she came back and I showed the money to her and I said, thank you very much for the money, but I'm going to keep this money because you don't trust me. So I showed it to her. Why are you laughing? I showed it to her. I showed it to her, presented to her and showed it to her, and I said, you don't trust me. I said, but since you don't trust me and I'm showing it to you and you put it in the pocket, I'm like, you know, I'm getting it out here. I'm keeping this money. And I did, and I kept it. So that shocked her too.

[27:36] VALLIE JACKSON: And so show the difference, maybe the way. Daddy. What? Daddy asked you to grocery shop for them? Oh, yeah.

[27:46] JULIE TURNER: Yes. When her mother became ill and she had round the clock assistance for help day and night. So dad, that dad appointed me to be the head person, all these white people, you know, and they was nurses and stuff, and I was. He gave me the checkbook and for me to go to grocery shopping, I did all the grocery shopping. He carried me to the grocery store and he introduced me to the manager there. He said, this is Valerie V. Jackson She worked for me. And when she coming to you for. With my check, it's okay, you know, so I didn't have any problem with that. So I would make a grocery list. Now, anything I saw that was needed in the house for your mom to eat at this time, they wasn't there. They was grown and married, but, uh, I was over there.

[28:49] VALLIE JACKSON: Yeah, she was the eyes and ears for us with the people we had hired to help tend to mother's needs. But she would have done that even if she wasn't asked to do that. Yes, because there was just a lot of love. My mother and valley were just.

[29:09] JULIE TURNER: Yes, we.

[29:10] VALLIE JACKSON: Jesse Ellington, my mother, and they were a team. Yes, they both mothered us and prayed over us and pointed us in the directions they felt we should go. And most of the time we followed those directions.

[29:26] JULIE TURNER: Maybe so. And mom and dad, the mom and dad would go on vacation, and when they were small, well, especially Julie and her brother Robbie, I would stay at their house. And I had a family too. I had a husband. I had to go home and, you know, talk ten to him sometime too. So I would take them to my house, and guess what? They would sleep in my house all night, two or three nights. And guess what? In the middle of the night, I feel something heavy on me. And guess who it be. Julie her brother, and my three kids all in the bed with me. So we had a wonderful time. Wonderful time.

[30:07] VALLIE JACKSON: So, Valley, I think we've gone through most of the questions that we had, we had put together. So as we. I think we're kind of Kipley. I think we're kind of ready to wind it up. So, Valley, Kathy and I want to tell you thank you for being our other mother. You have been major influence in the formation of our character and still are. Yes. And just the love you shower this with. Yes. And just, we appreciate so much how you took care of our parents.

[30:45] JULIE TURNER: Yes.

[30:45] VALLIE JACKSON: When they got older and, you know, they loved you and helped take care of you. And, you know, after your husband died and how long you worked for them, they always tried to provide you with a good living and you reciprocated that for them at the end of their life when they needed care and trying to preserve their dignity and quality of care. So we love you very much and we thank you for everything you've done for us and our family.

[31:13] JULIE TURNER: I love you, too, baby. You know I love you, too. I know you do. We're going to continue to help you in any way that we can.

[31:21] VALLIE JACKSON: You know that.

[31:22] JULIE TURNER: And can I say this? And when I called Kathy and invited her to come to this hall again, I said, oh, my gosh, I shouldn't do that because I'm going to somebody's house. But anyway, since I've been here, we have a wonderful time. And guess what? She can come back next year.

[31:40] VALLIE JACKSON: Every summer. Now, Julie And we're grateful that her children trust us to share their mother with us. You know, that's, you know, you don't just send your 87 year old mother anywhere. And her children are very gracious and let us have time with her. And we appreciate that. So. And there's love there, too. Absolutely. Her children.

[32:01] JULIE TURNER: Yeah. Yes.

[32:03] VALLIE JACKSON: Kipling, we thank you for helping to facilitate this process, and we look forward to seeing what the final product is going to look like.

[32:11] JULIE TURNER: So I want to ask a couple of questions. Valerie, you talked about your mother, Maddie, and you also talked about your dad. Can you tell me your mom's full name and your dad's full name? My mother was Maddie. M a t t I e. Presley Conway. My dad, McKinley Conway. Okay. And you also talked about Julie and Catherine's parents. Can I get their full names? Our mother.

[32:54] VALLIE JACKSON: Okay. Our mother was Jesse May Ellington. Jesse May, n a e. And Jesse may Morgan. Jesse May. And then our father was Robert Waldrop.

[33:12] JULIE TURNER: Waldropwaldropop.

[33:12] VALLIE JACKSON: And Ellington was the last name. Junior. Yes. So Robert Waldrop Ellington junior and Jesse Main. Morgan Ellington.

[33:31] JULIE TURNER: And then you talked about Susan, her.

[33:35] VALLIE JACKSON: Full name, Susan Marie Ellington. She's our oldest sister and she is now deceased. And when she turned about 39 or so, we started introducing her to everyone as our oldest sister. And at first she really bugged it cause she hated getting older, but then she joined in the fun and laughed because we weren't gonna relent. None of us are. So she finally just decided, I got to enjoy this.

[34:13] JULIE TURNER: And then you guys also mentioned Robbie, right?

[34:17] VALLIE JACKSON: Our brother, Robert Waldrop Ellington III, known as Robbie. And we have another brother, Pat. Pat, Patrick. Charles Ellington. And the birth order is Susan, Kathy, Pat, Robbie and Julie We saved all our brains for the last one here.

[34:47] JULIE TURNER: I think that is it for me. Ladies, what a great story. Thank you so much for sharing it. And if you guys can get close to each other, we're going to do that. Screenshot photo. Thank you. Okay. Okay. Okay. You ready? One more time.

[35:09] VALLIE JACKSON: Okay.

[35:11] JULIE TURNER: Oh, wonderful. Oh, thank you. All right, ladies, thank you so much again. Sorry for those technical difficulties, but we got it all figured out.

[35:21] VALLIE JACKSON: No worries.

[35:22] JULIE TURNER: I hope you guys have a great rest of the day. And, Miss Valley Jackson enjoy the rest of your vacation. And I, ladies, enjoy your mom while you got her.

[35:33] VALLIE JACKSON: Yes, yes. And my kids are coming over tonight because they want to have dinner with Valerie Jackson So it's not just us that love her, but our children love her. So.

[35:44] JULIE TURNER: So you all are a big extended family? We are.

[35:48] VALLIE JACKSON: And she is a woman that we all love. She just spreads love and happiness and acceptance everywhere she goes. Right. And this is how people respond to her. All her friends, all her church people, all her family, all her other family.

[36:08] JULIE TURNER: Thank you all so much, Miss Jackson And, guys, you all can come back again. You know, if you guys want to come in with Miss Jackson's children and tell Valley Jackson stories, you know, that's one way people have commemorated folks, you know, just let Brenda know and we can help, you know, put that together. But thank you so much. Thank you.

[36:34] VALLIE JACKSON: Bye bye.

[36:36] JULIE TURNER: Bye bye. Oh, God. Jesus.