Verni Howard and Bert Schmale

00:02 Bernie Howard I am 50 years old. Today's date is June 25th 2020. I'm in Shreveport, Louisiana and my partner today is Burke Smalley and Burt and I met on the board of Providence house. He was originally my boss and I are our partnership has evolved from a work relationship to a very healthy friendship.

00:33 Caper

00:35 My name is Bert Smalley. I am 49 years old. Today is Thursday, June 26th, 2020 and Bernie Howard is my partner and while I serve on the board of which she is the executive director of Providence house. I consider her a dear friend.

00:55 Okay, and there's the first of the questions will alternate these the bird. Why don't you go ahead and you're asking this to to Vernie Vernie you answer and then you can ask the same question afterwards.

01:07 How would you sum up your life story in 5 minutes or less?

01:19 Journey life has taken me to several States. It has afforded me the opportunity to meet people all across the country. It has allowed me to have the most important part in that's my children. I have two little ones Hannah and Matthew and in and I think it's the most important one in my of my life's journey, which is right. Now I get to serve people I get to Stowe into the lives of people. So my my journey has not been a straight line. It's certainly been a mystery that is taking me many places near and far closer full robust siding and the best part of it. I've really share the journey with a really wonderful husband of 22 year.

02:18 So that that's my story.

02:23 Very good, very good.

02:29 Minutes or less? Well, my story is centered around family much like yours. I got married Reddit rather young celebrating 29 years of marriage this week in a birthday coming up is a set of 49. So I have a pretty big birthday coming up soon, but

02:51 Family Faith and friendship is important to me while I have no kids. I have plenty of nieces and nephews that I love on and then take up a lot of my time in the career much like yours started out in one pass and ended up at where we were probably called to do a little bit differently stages of our lives and I started working for UPS spent 20 years of ups and then became a banker and that's not your typical past there and through banking felt the desire to give back to the community which led me to Providence house and to meeting you which I'm very thankful for that. So giving back to the community giving to my family and giving him a job and giving to my face are very important to me and that's that's what I'm about and that's kind of sums up. You know who I am, so

03:47 So in your own words describe your personal political values and what are the most important issues for you personally?

03:58 Well

04:00 I guess the the easiest way that mean I wouldn't say a typical conservative, who knows what a typical conservative is anymore over the last three years. That's a bald man really over here time it evolves, you know on both sides of the aisle as he could say I'm a republican but I believe how that it affects me have our issues are important to me personally. I mean freedom. I mean, that's it some it up in one word and I believe in the Constitution. I believe in Freedom cannot believe that the government has a role to support the people and protect the people and that's it that to put it simply that's it. I mean it diggers people have different views on what that involves and and I think it's important to to get the primary focus of the government is

05:00 Do that. And so that's kind of where I'm a prospective comes from.

05:06 A sew-in in Bernie in your words describe your political views and values. I'm sorry. And what are the most important issues to your person to you personally?

05:24 When you grow up you are you pretty much prescribed to what your parents do and I think over what I've learned is I'm neither. I'm registered as a Democrat, but I'm neither a Democrat or Republican. I don't vote along any party lines. I am always looking for the person who I believe has the heart of the people and you know it as their priority and the person that I believe will carry out the things that I believe to be true and then believed to be important and it doesn't matter to me if that's male female, you know, black white Republican or Democrat up so I don't really prescribed to any one particular party. In fact, I did early voting.

06:21 Yesterday because I am so concerned about the plight of our country. And so when we talk about issues that are important for me personally, I would think first and foremost is equality and inequality from not just a racial not just Racial equality equality from up gender equality Financial equality. That's really important to me. Haven't been apart of corporate America for almost 20 years and then the only woman as a corporate Banker.

07:00 Afforded me a different Insight then I you know, it really did it afforded me a different inside and I saw things through a different set of lenses and toys quality is really important to me as well as education. I have a I have a 13 year old daughter and I have a 10 year old son and they are extremely bright and I want to make sure that they receive the best education but not only that they receive the best education but is that work with homeless children that children receive the best education? So he quality education of those are the two issues that that drive me every single day.

07:54 And it's Albert while we're talking about politics and political values and and issues describe your earliest political memory.

08:08 My earliest political memory really is I guess Ronald Reagan being a a former actor and running for office. I was ten when he ran for office and and and became president. And so that's really about that is I think I've heard this before so it's not unique Concepts to me. But and of course presents prior to that had a little bit of the Charisma and everything but coming from an entertainment industry into politics and I guess obviously that being the first time that someone made that cross over since then we've had a governors of States but never again and actor become but the importance of that in this day and age with everything being in the information age being what it is is social media now,

09:08 Cracker not one that I really remember just hearing about him but also becoming president and being re-elected. I'm not old enough to have noted for him. But I do remember that specifically speaking of earliest political memories of Bernie. What would be your earliest political memory?

09:32 Was a social worker and there was a gentleman named Jo shine who was running for city councilman, and he and my mom were friends and he actually visited our home and we had a conversation in the den with my sisters. My mom my dad and I was always pretty inquisitive. And so I wanted to know what was a city councilman. Why was he running? What qualifies him? Of course? My parents are like, oh my God, I can't believe this kid asking a question, but I was really sure yet because he was asking my parents to be Advocates to use their voice to ask other people to support him. And so as an African American little girl growing up, I became very I became very interested in politics.

10:31 The political process in the people behind those politics and so that was really matter earliest memory and I went on to do I even in high school and college I was part of girls State and I ran for Student Government president and was even involved on a political level in college and I think all of that stemmed from that one meeting with Joe shine in our did with my mom and dad so that's how my political life began to take shape in route.

11:09 Very good again.

11:16 Are you going to talk about a moment?

11:20 Are when they shipped it?

11:24 What are you kind of mentioned it earlier? You said your your parents were Democrats you grow up with those use we all are influenced with our parents and buy Dad and as we get older, we may have a difference of view or may strengthen that you and and my parents I grew up. They were pretty conservative pretty Rapinoe and Republican and as I grew up I kind of followed those lines I think as we get older we always well it's a Muslim people and they should read get the truth because journalism isn't what it used to be. There's a lot of opinion in in editorial types SE should read and and and and and political besides vowel changes to mean I'd like to you I don't trust me locally. You can't follow party lines and so is very important to to be aware of of what the person that you're voting for stands for.

12:24 It may not be that are or did he or I'mma next to their name and may or may not be anything in the lines of what you believe. So I do simile like that. I can't really think of a time where it's just as we've had different Governors and presidents city council Mayors and all that. I see strengths and weaknesses in and all of them and I try to find you know, as you said you voted I just spoke to my mom earlier and and she was asking me some questions about cuz she's early voting she'd want to go to the polls with the covid-19 and all that trying to stay safe and who knows what challenges will be for that which makes me think I may need to do that to do so that I can trick that's taken care of notable shift other than I just like to be educated about it and just it it doesn't really follow a line other than the line of My Views and make sure I'm trying to do the best I can.

13:24 But what I believe is best depending on that that specific see whether it's a city councilman or the president or Congress or anything else. So you kind of got you kind of touched on yours with your political memory there that's very impressive that from age of 10, but you when I was when I was just knowing about it, but actually having the insight to what are some other moments that may have shaped your political ideas and if they ever shifted from one to the other or or whatever we put you at Bernie.

13:57 Clearly My Views were shaped by that experience, but my views shift it probably when I started college LSU in Baton Rouge. I have gone to all predominantly black schools until I entered High School where I went to a magnet school and you know with lots of different people and it was when I enter College LSU with 30,000 students and in your trying to find your voice and your space and how you're going to make a difference and I would look at all the candidates who would run for SGA president and it was a one-year I served on the campaign of Bennett who was the first black SGA president at LSU and it is I survived on his campaign because I really believed and Kirk but more so

14:57 I realize the difference for person in office could make or the impact the difference in the impact. They could make on the end. So it really shifted my view shifted when I didn't see enough women, you know stepping up to the plate and and I begin to think about what what would hold a person back from really using their boys and their position to make impact and so I think I started at LSU in Baton Rouge. I think I started to see the world a little bit differently because I saw a bigger cross section of the world and I begin to understand how even Collegiate politics could shape the environment that I was in short-term and in long-term and I think that's where I found my voice.

15:57 And that's why I learn to get out not always be quiet. But to raise my boys when it was going to make an impact. So there was definitely a shifting in my undergraduate career.

16:14 Bird I was going to Justin's Bernie talked about her college experience. Did you have any experience like that yourself in high school or college that kind of had that effect on well actually so in high school I did I went to a relatively small school graduated with 22 here locally in Shreveport until I had a small school is a private like I said, and so I ran for office there and and held office in my class and relatively small student council as well as a college as I mentioned earlier. I married a little bit early. I worked in college, so I didn't I wasn't as involved with the LSU vs here in Shreveport graduated here, but wasn't involved in in politics in college so much since I was working really two jobs and married and going to school so my focus shifted from just getting my degree in

17:14 Rear way has been in have the involvement kind of regret that I wish I would have been more involved in in school and and that but you changed to you everything shapes who you are as you get older decisions, you make them proud of my time of that but there's a 1 things. I wish I could have been more involved in that l s u s.

17:37 Well you both were involved in some way then of running for an office. Even though the college level. Can you elaborate more on what you were anticipating from that what made you decide to to do that? Cuz obviously not everybody does.

17:57 Are you asking me or Bernie about both of you actually, so I didn't run in college. I have no experience in college and high school is high school is kind of I was a relatively good student and I was kind of like playing sports is the thing to do whatever I really didn't say that looking back on it. It was well become a board member another things. I've always sought out leadership opportunities when I had time, so whether it's in a job or other things and so I think it was just a step to help make a change, you know, you've been on a high school, but I'm in a small school student council while has a voice is not a lot in a private school that's going to eat. You don't have a big voice your real small in numbers different perspective.

18:57 You're affecting and occur as we see so.

19:10 I think for me if I had never had that encounter in My Den I would have never recognized the power of my voice if Josiah was not he didn't come from an affluent background. He wasn't someone who is very popular. He was an average guy who was a hard worker who at work in his community and when he ran for office and I should stay here by and for me that was eye-opening and it said to me you don't have to be affluent. You don't have to you know how money but you have to believe in something and you have to convince other people to join you and what you believe and it can be powerful and sew in

20:11 Louisiana girls State I think it's a really good example, you have to campaign for girls State, you know, you're you're you're nominated but you have to campaign for it. I ran a campaign in high school for Louisiana girls State and I had to figure a lot of things out and a lot of people, you know, you put yourself out there in and that's the thing with politics you put your your your your thoughts. They are your person out there your beliefs out there for people to either accept or people to reach and it's a very vulnerable place. But when I saw that Joe shine won an election, I felt like if he did it I could do it and I think high school was the entree for me and it was kind of a natural when I went to college and get some other thing. That was just kind of a natural space for me when I believe in something I wanted other people.

21:11 Believing that something to and in that shape my beliefs and is shaking my chicken apology.

21:21 And I doubt I'm into that cuz it has I've gotten older and further into my career, you know, one of the things and it's a you can call it an office or not being on a board such as Providence house and then it in being asked to serve on the Executive Park become the prisoner that bored you have tuna to shape that entity as well. And so as I said, you better find me or I'll find it always opportunities to to where I can help in the helping weather that's leading or helping those that are leading to make something better or to improve it. So interesting and Drawn Together on different aspects is 8 / both know we're trying to service Angola or indifferent Arena or others were wanting to make a difference and and so like like Bernie

22:21 Cuz I have that same desire where it where is it kind of came to me later in life as as I got past the working a couple of jobs in college and being married brother to look at you as I got into my career that that passion kind of came through and in it every step along the way by Frank lini, so

22:45 Local police

22:49 Well, mom and my beliefs not really, you know, I have my beliefs coming from a Christian background like yourself and and in the so

23:06 Lot of its impact wrench. Do you know is his political beliefs are faith is entrenched in Morality and different things and so that kind of guides my political beliefs and as I've gotten older and everything the I wouldn't say. I have a doubt in my political beliefs if there's a many times has been down in the in the leadership that's in the end in control or organ in politics as well as I can buy safely assume that we all have a different era is whether it's now or 5 years ago or whenever I'm so I would say if I had any doubts it's really with the intentions or the motives of those that may be in charge and then like you said that and we said that the best way to either being involved or are campaigning for someone or trying to support someone that it has a view that you would like to see Berrington.

24:06 Controller to be part of it so that they can help shape the views to be much more so you don't have those doubts, but I've never really had a doubt in my mind in my political beliefs as I've gotten older and more mature and in shape is kind of really solidified it as much as anything else more so than changed it and and when starting with that foundation for my parents about you, but they did you ever doubted you said you mentioned earlier you kind of nuts shifted but you involved and as you get older it's as we all do but was there a time when you can point to that they could put it out in the New York local police Ernie.

24:48 You know, honestly, I like most I believed whatever my parents believe.

24:59 And so at some point in my life, and I'm not sure when exactly when that happened I did begin to doubt if I believed it because it was my own conviction or if I believed it because it was it was how I was shaking and so that's really what caused my shifting self. I never doubt it right or what I believe to be right or wrong. I've never doubted what I believe politically to be fair or unfair but I can say that my belief early on was more Steep and what my parents told me as opposed to what I actually knew or learned for myself.

25:47 I am so I'm always open to hearing new thing the new ideas, but essentially who I am and what I believe never there is no doubt there at this point in my life. You know, if I would be hard-pressed for someone to cost me to shift at this point and what I really believe.

26:18 And it's you know, you've you have a good point there. Not that I do think about that. You know that can be true from almost every aspect of your life and how much it's a fact and two beautiful kids. We hope to influence in my in my nieces and nephews and still upon them values and you know, let them become the wrong person, but it's same point. We have you notes. It's incumbent on us to to be a good example and in God them and then that guiding you hope that they follow some level of a similar belief and Murat out in Morality and faith that we have and that shapes our views and if you don't question that that's part of growth the foundation is is there that from from a good place or whatever and you say yeah, that's you know, I understand that perspective. I mean he we all have with an initial crisis in faith, but a

27:18 Review our faith and see you know, why do we believe that where does it come from and I can be related into the political beliefs as well? Cuz to me, I think if we were looking at it holistically the political beliefs from a perspective of the Christian that's that's important to some of my political beliefs cuz some of those and are important decisions that are that follow that same line of thinking so that our parents are great influences. We both had strong father and mother in our household. And so we had that benefit and they even still the non-us values that to this day we still there where the foundation came from so

27:59 Share this with you. I thought was interesting my Matthew who is always so inquisitive about every single thing. We were riding in the car for 2 days ago, and he was sitting in the backseat in this this kind of speaks to how your parents shape what you think I try to be very careful with that. I want to mold them a certain way. I'm always interested in what they think and so Matthew and Hannah were in the state and Matthew said Mommy, do you support lgbtq community?

28:36 And I thought well, where did that where did that question come from? And I am I my daughter said yeah, I'd like to know your thoughts on that and I went out whenever I would ask my parents a question like that growing up. They would immediately give me their thought but what I'm always careful to do is I have some questions before I give my thoughts and I said well first of all, do you know what lgbtq is? Let me make sure you understand what that mean.

29:13 And then I began to can't go down a road where I'm not you know, I'm not leading them. But I want to know where they are before I can ever leave them and you know, what time what we engaged and I understood that they understood what it meant. Then my conversation shifted towards equality and you know, I shared that I believe in equality for everyone that everyone deserves to be treated with respect and I'm not sure that was the answer that they were looking for. But what I wanted them to understand is before we can have a meeting for conversation about anything politics, you know, racism sexism, whatever it is. Let me make sure you understand what it is.

30:09 And then I can address it in a way that you can make decisions for yourself or you always know where Mommy and Daddy's staying so kids will certain way kiss will certainly keep you on your toes. And so I'm always I'm always awaiting the conversation when we get in the car after summer camp. So yeah, you want to talk about parents shaping that's that that's what happened so so much more as we talked about earlier date the information out there the ability to pick up a device in your hand or or computer and immediately just type something and search it the words. We had books. We had to go to actually look up and see things in there may be imprinted 10 years ago, but it did that's amazing and I think it's a good thing is with my nieces and nephews. I kind of do the same thing.

31:09 Back in a different way to see where they are on it before doing anything. It's a good it's a good tool to use to Edo like you said your testing their knowledge on it or if it's just something they heard have no idea what it is. That's at I'm not surprised at all that you got two great kids and knowing you as well as I do.

31:34 I will text they were I told him that I was going to vote early. I normally Don and I take them to the poles with us and if there is an amendment if there is a something controversial we make them learn about it and we will always ask so if you were going about you know, how would you vote? I was very interested because again, they go to school with other kids that are you know, very very bright children that come from every different background which is why I love their school in because they get exposed to so much more than just one or two cultures every culture. It is very interesting the political conversation that we have because what I would learn their political views are not necessarily shaped by what they are hearing at school. Their political views are really being shaped a whole lot by what they say.

32:34 You know, they read we read the newspaper together in the morning. We talked about, you know, like we read any of the headlines, you know, what happened this morning and we talked about it while we're driving into summer camp, but they become a date they may have feelings around the behaviors of people that we currently have in place whether it's the president whether it's our mayor, you know, it's someone someone was recently arrested from a school board in Bossier not recently but in a few months back, they wanted to have a conversation about that. Should that person be still hold that position. So I think what we have done is in our own home, we have sparked a curiosity that is in a for me but we we sparked that Curiosity in our little people and they are awesome.

33:34 Coming to me with an opinion or thought but it's not just based on what we told them what what they're reading about and that's why reading is Sookie what they're reading about what they're seeing on the news and they are forming their own opinion and that really gets me excited as a mom that they can put things together and synthesize information and it making you don't make choices or make decisions that day. That's pretty it's a pretty cool process to watch.

34:05 It really isn't when you say reading is so important as I mean why we have so much information. That is I don't know if it's so much in front of son of a bailable to us. I don't know if it's any more there so many things about the fake news or the white noise or anyting about their will is it worse now that we have more or is it worse before when you had one paper and that's the only thing you got really it was almost impossible outside of the three channels on TV to get any other information out there. That was so limited that you made it more difficult to go find where is now you can it's almost like the two sides of it's almost like a fire hose or so much out there. You have to be able to pull out and being able to be smart about reading and what's your interest in researching? Who is the writer on that? Wet are they ruined if there is one that it's shifted where the focus should be from from finding it anywhere you can get it cuz it's so hard to get to being able to sort through it and understand what you

35:05 Really reading or what you really listening to or watching and knowing knowing that it's maybe it isn't coming from a pure place or is it gotta is it having agenda, you know and as you know because you and I are our friends and our way.

35:29 Stations are really social conversations that I've had with my almost 10 year old boy has really stemmed around what we've been seeing in the news lately with the protest and what does all of that mean? And why are we talking about my daughter's asking you know why we're talking about equal rights and slavery in 2020 and my son asking, you know, what happened to some people men that look like him at the same color. Should should he be concerned at 9 about that happening to him? And so we've had some very hard conversation. But what I try to do is to like you just mention not turn on the fire hose. There are some things I turn off.

36:22 To my kids and I'll say let's have this particular conversation. When I when I think you're a little bit more mature can really understand the information. Yes. I'm terrible thing happened hundreds of years ago. Terrible things happened today. Yes, we will have to have a different conversation as you get older and you know, how we behave when we walk to the store and you know, how you carry yourself always but I think if we do a good job as parents from a here's how you behave. This is this is how you treat people. You are good at all times you adhere if if somebody if a police officer ask you to do something you follow, you know, if we can if if we can get those basic things down that the harder conversations when we see a George Floyd are we seeing a mod or Berry?

37:22 You know what? We see those kind of thing. I think that the backdrop to those conversations become a little bit easier math. You can't process that now at 9 because he is a good kid. He is a deacon at the church. He does what he's supposed to do. So, I don't want him at 9 to be concerned about being the next political Ploy because he's going to get falsely accused for doing something wrong. I just think that the maturity that's needed to understand that needs to come a little bit later, but we are giving him

38:00 Bite-size pieces so that he can understand at his maturity level and at his age level what's to be expected later on and that's a very difficult conversation for educated parents that have with a really smart little boy. That's that's impressive. I mean, it's so important in a no doubt that that's going to be fun to watch that is as we continue on with our relationship to see how those kids and hopefully things and attitudes and the general public becomes better as we we all work towards that so

38:48 I think the best thing is you and I talked is it happened last week when you were on the baseball field supporting your nephew taking pictures of my son and sending me those pictures to Chronicle. What happened? When kids no matter their racial makeup are on playing a group sport team sport.

39:15 Good sportsmanlike Honda with one another and learning on that baseball field that to me is what our future of our political future looks like. It's two boys that come together around a common purpose with a common spirit that that's how our community is going to get better and you show respect you come from a place of mutual respect and respect is earned but you should start from a place of respect and if that respect is taken advantage of or misused are your misplaced then you didn't you shift from that and that's what I've always. That's that's why I grew up saying. Yes, ma'am and no ma'am. No, sir. Yes, sir. I don't care if they're younger or older than me. It's still a form of respect and it's a southern thing to but it's something that I do as a respectful way. It said. Yep or nope are ya Arnett, you know in that way. It's just a more formal.

40:15 Respectful, that's one way and that it comes from someone doesn't deserve it and they they get it in a different way. So it's just part of it part of life. Right? So but I enjoyed enjoyed taking pictures. That was fun. Thank you. So I'm going to go ahead and stop the recording right there, and I'm just a second here.