Walter Esquivel and Stephan Abrams

Walter "Walt" Esquivel (WE) and Stephan Abrams (SA) talk about their motivations for having this conversation.

WE asks SA about his childhood in Mississippi in Southern Baptist Country as a Jewish family.

SA asks WE about leaning conservative once and becoming more liberal. WE talks about serving in the US Navy during the Persian Gulf and Iraq Wars and realizing while he was serving that the presidential administration was using Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMDs) as a pretense of war when there were none.

SA talks about growing up in a racially divided community as a child. The KKK marched through his town in MS and opened his eyes to racism.

WE talks about the COVID19 Pandemic as being pivotal for him. He can't understand people's disbelief in science, but he sees that scientific proof doesn't convince people.

SA poses a hypothetical question about today's vaccine skeptics if they lived during the Spanish Flu or when the polio vaccine was released; would "science disbelievers" have existed back then? WE doesn't have an answer to that question.

They talk about the internet hosting disbelief and misinformation. SA brings up a mentality of "trust but verify to fact check through multiple sources.

WE talks about oversaturation of media channels and outlets becoming extremist. People are loyal to one outlet only.

SA would like to get rid of titles like Republican and Democrat and talk to people like people. He believes an individual has ultimate control over what their success is and has a choice to respond to outside influences. As an entrepreneur, SA has built upon this belief since he was a young kid who had a business mowing lawns.

WE's political values: social safety nets, education for everyone, equal rights. He talk about marching in a BLM parade in Laramie, WY and having exhaust blown in his and other marchers faces by men in trucks.

We talks about being apolitical and not really aware of politics until he was an adult in the early 2000s while in the military.

SA says he neither invested time in politics until he was in his 30s. He didn't vote at first until a friend berated him. He has "matured" since and now takes his children to the voting place to learn the importance.

WE wants people on his own side to not belittle or disrespect others in communicating their beliefs. SA also wants people to be mindful of how they word their statements.

WE brings up compromise as to how things get done. SA thinks conflict...

In closing/reflection- SA feels joy, happiness, and gratitude for the conversation.