William Martin and Dany Bright

00:03 Hello, I'm William Martin, 33 years old and today is Saturday, June 26th, 2021. We're from Harrisonburg, Virginia. And this is my conversation partner. Danny branch and we are friends.

00:20 Hi, my name is Danny bright. I'm 37. Today is Saturday, June 26th, 2021. We're calling from Harrisonburg, Virginia. The name of my conversation partner is William and we are friends.

00:36 Really awkward in front of us.

00:43 How long, I mean, how long have you been out as a trans person? I threaten existing about 5 years ago. If you would like February of 2016, when I started transition, I started slowly coming out to different people when I was there fall before that. So, how long were you? How long was it between you saying? I'm a trans person in and actually transitioning. I was like, I think I'd like officially like I kind of like hinted at it with other people, but he was looking for some of my officially sold. I am is I'm trans and and started but I was in Lake.

01:33 October maybe, or maybe the number somewhere in there. And then the following, like February, few months between the time, I like the first person I told, until I started saying, I didn't identify cisgender. So that was before we knew each other. So that was started in 2015. I kind of was thinking, you know, like I don't really feel like a female, which is how it was assigned at Birth, and I thought I might be transmasculine and I even went so far as to wait, come out to my mom, but I told her not to tell anybody else.

02:26 And she's just, she's very traditional and she, she's like a Mennonite not like the old order one, but her family is a Mennonite family. And so she, she wasn't like, she didn't get upset, but she was intimately cannot understand. Like, how does that work? Like how you not feel, like, who you are, who your body is and I got even more complicated when she was. Like, what, what gender are you attracted to? And it's not the same thing and she's like, well, if you're a man, then wouldn't you be attracted to women with? This is a question. I've gotten from my family like my whole life and you know, stuff like that.

03:26 Lgbtq Community ask me like, like after I turn the show, the unit started the transition. I like, oh, so you attractive and I feel they burn and I went in but I mean, I guess I can happen. But ginger root and sexual identity of fluid and like that sounds more like a coincidence.

04:15 It's very common for people with outside the community and within the community to get that mixed up. Like, right from understanding my gender. Oh, yeah, and when I was exploring, my gender non-binary was not very well known at that time. And so there was a lot of people being like, Oh, that's not a real thing. They still do, but

04:50 It just trying to figure out where I kind of ways. That was the first thing I've ever seen. When it came to like the first person I've ever really like, it's close the gate be, that's it. And the further I like I was like, really late is true. And I was like hell yeah. Yeah, I started.

05:50 Well, it does that mean that I can't play with makeup or paint my nails or, you know, do lady things, you know, and so that's what kind of made me feel like. Oh, maybe trans man is not who I am. And that's when I started learning about like a combine area, gender-fluid, and things like that.

06:20 Yeah, and it's I know it's probably different for you at like

06:27 It's a little bit more free like once you like kind of even if you can be out for the rest of the world, like just that realization, like it's so much for yourself. Cuz even in that time period, before I started to come out like it was still like super freaking to be like at least and I kind of accepted.

06:56 Starting to come out of the, hold on the process.

07:04 Forever prize, I think it's not the same like usually, Okay, and like, if you quote on quote gay was stupid phrase and then like, you don't know, they can help but for a transfer sound like you don't.

07:44 People don't know lady. I'm very like within calling all passing. So like most of the people I work with have no idea. And for now, I kind of want it that way, but like, I don't stop it. I like never want them to find out, but I'm like, I'm pretty okay with him. Not knowing the questions, right? But like, if you're never really done coming out as well, when it comes to your gender.

08:18 Husband again, for me. I actually kind of had to go back in the closet because my mom's reaction was very she started buying you like books that were like, you know what God doesn't make mistakes and you know, who God Made You to supposed to be a woman and, and stuff like that. You know, I don't hold any ill will toward. She had what she thought was the best intentions, and she wasn't mean about it or anything. She just genuinely thought, you know, if I were you sure her at the time? He doesn't like it's okay, and I'm not mad. Then maybe I can like bring bring her back into the freaks out. So,

09:13 Is and why every time anybody would make some sort of like slip-up about gender or anything like that, like one time, one of my nieces was like talking super fast and she called me uncle and I laugh about it, but my mom was very uncomfortable. So, right. And then so when I

09:54 Realize I was non-binary, the opportunity to go to my mom and be like, I thought about it.

10:06 Like, I'm not a transman and she's like, oh, okay, and I just never filled her in. On the rest, is kind of like that part. I did because my mom is very loving, but the rest of my family does not do well with understanding other people. And so I feel like, especially if she told my dad or my brothers, they would be a lot of mocking, a lot of bullying. A lot of, you know, why I didn't raise you to be gay. And that's an inappropriate question. They had, they were friends with another couple when they were younger. And that other couple has two kids and both of them coincidentally are gay. And I've heard my dad be like, I wouldn't be able to stand it if not you.

11:07 I like that kind of stuff. So that's why I just kind of was like, no. I'm just going to go back in the closet, not going to worry about it. And then,

11:20 When I realized I was pansexual several years later, I was like, I'm not even going to bother any of my family until it becomes an important point of my life. Like if I'm dating, somebody who appears to be the same gender. I am or, you know, something like that if I have to do that, then I will deal with it. But my dad's a type of person who has threatened to kick me out over my statement that I don't think he's really doing good during the pandemic. So it's very I don't know what's going to send them off. So and it's wrong and I know that there are so many kids out there and they call back in the ones that

12:11 I'm used to this being way. I just keep a secret about myself. It doesn't bother me because I'm 37 years old. I'm an adult. I know it doesn't really bother me, but I don't want to know and like we both grew up in like these places and neither like, you know, they pushed you to come out of it. And yes, it is a good idea to have to find a way to come out but if it's not safe and like if you have to stay in the closet and find yourself a little Community to the side where you can still be yourself and then go home and be in the closet.

12:57 If that's what it takes to keep you alive, and keep you safe, then not tell me an unpopular opinion. I believe that's fine. And I think that's because I grew up that way. And I grew up in a home where like, my mom was, you know, my mom has a line that day. It was like, super anything. Like my dad would not have cared, like his kind of been living, his little dog. Like a man like you would rather have a happy healthy person.

13:29 A child, but my mom was like

13:36 But it was safer for me to pretend, ever me to hide it. And like, that's what took so long like, I was 28, and my mom had died and I was like, when I do, like, a certain toxins stuff as I can. Being with, like, because I waited until my mom died, before I finally, just be like, oh, I do for my job because I do firmly in the closet. Like, I was fine with, like presenting is lesbian, all these things for so long because like, I was kind of like sticking to the finger at the dinner thing was that I was just like I can't like and she's been a lot of time. Like convincing me that I was like, I was like,

14:37 If it smells, it makes me sound like a horror or feel like a horrible person to say it out loud, but I talked with my therapist and she assures me that it's like, not an abnormal thought to have like, well, you know, when my parents who is really abusive or cruel dies, then I'll be free to be myself and it's it's a shame really horrible. The shame that people have to be put in that position, you know, where they feel like, they can't be themselves unless somebody else is dead. You know, I don't I feel like as a as a parent or Guardian, you should never put your child in a situation like that where they remember

15:34 I don't like, literally, the only job you have, as a parent is still love your child and care for them, and their, for whatever their reasons are. They're rejecting that because they're so hung up on something that when they were kids and their parents were like, that's not normal. So in there so hung up on that that they can't, they just really bad. So, I choose not to be your parent anymore or you know, like, as long as you're in my life or in my house, you have to do as I say that you don't get to be a human being.

16:12 And I probably need like that kind of like start just across the way and we're trying to have a face-to-face in Harrisburg. So we're starting time for the necessary resources. If they just said, they are in crisis and I need somewhere until like, even just to be with people who have had similar experiences with you room with people and they know what you've been through and they're not judging you for these types of things that other people said you for. It's a waitlist.

17:11 You can be yourself. You don't have to hide anything just for that little time while you're there. And it's so freaking, it's encouraging to know that you're not you're not wrong or messed up or anything like that living as regular average people. Instead of like the demons that you know religious sect or you know, you don't pop culture. A lot of times. I kind of paints them out to be. Oh, yeah. Yeah, so just be like, hey, we're regular people and we're just like everybody else and that's what really people really need to see and that's that's what I like.

18:12 And we don't have to go secret gay agenda. You know, what is wrong with me? If I had such a wonderful conversation.

18:35 So many belief systems, you know, the rainbow is a, a sacred or religious thing and it's like a good. So people are late. Know. I hate rainbow says that's gay. Meanwhile, their religion is like, no man, Rainbows are great, you know, they're buying from a higher power and they don't, they don't see that dissonance between their belief system in and how they're treating other people. And I think that's a huge thing with religious people and then hours about religion hours. Yes, and how like,

19:21 How hypocritical things are and like,

19:26 Yeah, we can talk for hours about it. And yeah, I like to go outside before in this area after you come out felt unsafe.

19:42 Especially, because of the actions of others towards you.

19:46 Sometimes I had another job before the one I'm at now, or like, I'm pretty sure like all my Social Media stuff is really like open and everything and the leak.

20:00 I'm pretty sure they'll do gold mirror found me on Facebook or something and makes all that are friends and they never come out and said anything about it. Pretty sure that they knew you were telling jokes that were not Kosher and I like sometimes I'll be able to sleep until control things going back. Wouldn't be finally one day. They noticed that I didn't use the bathroom the same way. Like I can just go out in the woods and use the bathroom like they did. And Mike said he mentioned something about that one day and I was like, I can't like

20:36 What, why are you concerned with what have somebody else used to stuff that be worried about how you'd like and then like looking for a job before my legal name, change was hard, but that was the biggest time they were like really hard as far as killing on living as a woman until like I had all these things were like I've been granted to me like, you know, if you're walking alone through a parking lot at night and you put your keys in between your fingers so they can take a ship need to defend yourself or I feel like all the things that you have to do with a woman to like make sure you're not a taxable in a woman's job to protect herself or to not put yourself in these situations, but I see both sides.

21:36 More like, I don't have to worry about walking down the street at 900 nearly as much because I spent that way, it's still really scary. It's been five in a bit years. I still find myself nervous and some situations that I would have been before, and that's more from like the way I grew up that it is from being trans. Like, I don't really feel that much extra for being trans because only because I think you are because like, just a glance at me. I look like a dude until I return the mouth and then I sound like a dude like, oh, yeah, sometimes I'm in certain situations where I'm like,

22:28 I feel like I'm I might be judged or might be like the students that there's something different or LBC about me and you might not know exactly what it is. But like they are. If they do figure it out, I mean,

22:40 How many years ago? I thought, Boys. Don't Cry Like That Scary. Cuz really, really scary. Cuz I'm Boys, Don't Cry. Like, she's over there wants to be called either, was that horrible, things done to them and it's really scared, and it's always at the back of your mind. Even if you're not in those situations on a regular basis, or even at all, it's just kind of there. If I go to a big city or something, or I don't know anybody, you know, I might be a lot more scared than I normally would have been, if I was a regular sis, and I have a lot of privilege a lot, but I am a very like passing white male like,

23:37 I can't I can't even fathom but I see so many news articles and stuff with all these people are blocking. But they're like they were terrified and I have a meeting and they talk about how terrified they aren't like. They don't go anywhere there. Like I've become so much of a homebody and we're kind of everybody became even now that things are going and if I can't like

24:18 You never know that you live in these bigger cities and stuff and you just can't even people. They do it in all this crime and things happen to good. People out here in the country. They had gone. It's not just the big cities, like you like that. They would just roll over and die right to carry a gun. But, you know, that and also like, but that same person will say, well, I don't think that that transfers and should be able to go in the bathroom. They feel safest in

25:10 Oh my gosh, I remember back when like, the bathroom thing was, like, becoming like the bigger saying it was like five or six years ago, that would like the big debate or whatever. Right around trans rights and bathroom tank. And it still is it still in it? But at the time, we like first starting to really become a pain and there was a full beard all the time if you'd like to take a selfie in the women's bathroom because he was born as a woman and like went into the winds. Like this is what it looks like. When I transfer the bathroom was like the person he was horrified, but he was like

26:01 This is what it would look like. If I ran the first, I went into the bathroom that you want them to go into it and I'm like, that's what I like. That's what I need to understand like a trans woman is just there to use the bathroom. If you're spying on this reyzelman and you see a body part that you don't think belongs there. You're the Pervert and that is me and so many people use the, the reasoning, you know, like we have to protect the children and the women and it's like, yes we do. But trans people are not the Predators. They almost they almost kind of stopped, just short of saying,

26:46 So it turns out sis men are the real problem are usually the ones who are going to have to do the thing, but they don't want to know about like, these priests or whatever. I've been molested little boys. Like you don't want to hear about that. You want to blame it on the other, you want to blame it on the what you think is the unusual or the weird people Beyond conforming. If they need a little boogie, man. Oh my God. All that stuff. There's a Prowler on Facebook here at the videos and packed like around women. That was a big discussion. That was exactly what he was talking about. Oh, yeah.

27:46 Not be as funny as it is when someone was our accents like speaks eloquently and tone and knows what they're talking about. And I was like, oh my goodness. It's almost like nervous laughter when we laugh at it, because it really shouldn't be that for me. So unusual, you can do people share that

28:17 And I'm like, just because we found the way we found because of where we're from and where. We're like right on the edge. But if I go home back to Lake Southern, Virginia and, North Carolina.

28:36 I don't get back to you but it does a used to run has been back and forth over the years and yeah, yeah. Yeah, my mom and I went to Kentucky one time and we are at the fast food place and the the person the server was like, where are you guys from? And we're like, we're from Virginia, and he was all your Northern. I don't like

29:06 Cultural for Appalachian right now. There's a whole different and an hour drive.

29:22 It's interesting to me to see how fast the non-binary movement has gained traction. Its it just seems like so many people were like coming out and saying, you know, this is a real thing and I think that's really great. But if it just like I thank my lucky stars that it's happening that way. But then you know, you have other other people who like my best, my best friend. Karen is bisexual and she still struggles to find any representation of the stigma. Yes. I'll bet. You know, she's because she's a woman and bisexual, she gets labeled as a slut, or if you're a man and you're bisexual cheater, that it is supposed to like crazy doubled energy, because those kinds of things they come from,

30:22 From within the community community, like people within the community don't like to be like they don't like people or even like people who died. If I hadn't talked about anybody that plague identifying like they're just like if they're trying to date her by then. She's like, I don't know what gender the person is it saying it or you know there.

31:09 As a man, I mean, I have friends there. Other one is happily married and has two kids like she's perfectly happy with her husband, but she, and she came out as bisexual being married and having to give Frank, and her husband before that. But like she didn't come out out like to the world right now and the Eraser from, if you have a straight passing relationship, if you don't get counted, yeah. Oh, yeah, you have to scream at for lgbtq mean like that kind of like a like a like we're going to look like a straight, talk a couple and

31:56 That is not a huge worry, but it's a thing. It's a thought like I have my babies are made like a huge worried, but it is a thing that like to look at us like what are you doing here? If I'm non-binary and I have to approve a nonbinary. This do I put more clothes on versus you just

32:35 Hide it real quick. I'll be there in like lucky will believe what they want to believe. That's what I'd like for all. They know. You're an ally. Like if you do the longer the longer version or whatever. It was like uiaa. I don't like this is one of the cases for this before a sexual. Apparently the other a was for a lie. I don't like

33:25 That's good to know. But why are you are you getting my friend went on a whole rant on Tik-Tok about it? And I was just like, you preach it girl, it's some.

33:45 You do we say that and then I'm also sitting here having a salt like the gatekeeping within within. There is such a bigger, such a drama with people who are within our that are in the community and then you do you think other people who are like me, you know, and then they say actually you don't quite meet the criteria that I think would love about you and you're not the opposite gender so you don't really care and it happens way more than people.

34:29 And it's gotten a lot better than they used to be, like the cheetah needs to count. It was all just living the gays. And if you are a tease, like, they just like all your driveway, but like that, it's gotten better, but it's still not working to be even with an r and we're working hard. All the time with neutralizer, new identities, being realised and stuff. You have like, things. Get a little, like money in the water. And, you know, you have people who are like, what is a trans woman, really a woman? Yes, all the lgbtq community in the whole purpose.

35:26 It's a drawing baby steps, but at the same time, it's really hard and I think

35:48 Certain communities like certain areas of the weather. Like, in my big diverse communities are imagine it. Imagine in places like New York or San Francisco. That is a lot more broken or like yeah, I guess it's true. We're also set in our ways. I guess. It's taking the Young Folks.

36:35 One of the groups is like trying to like help us get on our feet as far as like, but they wanted to an older person like somebody over for it to be on our leadership, leadership, a game. I mean, I mean, that's great. And I guess I do feel like the, the Gen Z years and the younger Millennials course. I'm an old Millennial, but I felt like I was raised with like siblings. You were just so identify more of the genze than I do with the Millennials that I'm technically in the morning. And I'm at

37:35 And by identifying more with that with like the gym exit and that's why I said next.

37:48 Yeah, so that's all I got to do, but it's still like didn't have internet when you were really young. But like, kind of grew up as it became a thing. It was when it first started getting popular in high school. It was you are the Biggest Loser. Like what you can make a real friend and, you know, that,, so I'm not everything.

38:30 I do really appreciate the the work that other people put into. He stigmatizing our community risk for my safety and then you know my my out my whole. Yeah, so I really appreciate those people can and do unabashedly go out as themselves and they say, you know what, this is not acceptable, the way you treat us. So other people like us and I really I really do. I really get Amazed by that, especially in the younger generation because they're realizing it younger. Now, it's not like there's something wrong with you. It's like

39:30 Attracted to the opposite gender. That's okay. And I really appreciate the work and the

39:43 Bright Bugz, the bike how it is that they have for this because I was really inspired. I'll let you know what I'm going to be visible. For those that can't be right. Now. When I first saw you as well and it's not even just that like if we grew up in a time where it was like, we were sold all of these ideas, like what your life would be or should be. And then it was like, oh, so very much like beat down and so tired and we don't we don't want to, we don't have the energy in us to fight as hard as people who are younger than us, and I remember telling Mom,

40:41 That it was in a decade ago. I remember telling her that I am so interested in seeing how the even though generation after mine changes the world because they are not afraid to tell you you're like this is not acceptable and I deserve respect. And that is that is like the one thing that gives me hope is to see that kind of thing, especially, you know, in the in America in this day and age are the generations coming up in their life. And, you know, this

41:35 They're either.