Joyce West and Colleen Davis

00:02 My name is Colleen Davis. I am 36 and I'm here at the story Corps booth at the World Trade Center with Joyce West who is my mother-in-law and a few Choice. Oh, okay. My name is Joyce West I am oh my God 68 today. Okay, the date is so what did we say? We said it was the 16th of December 2005 and we are at the World Trade Center in the special Booth sound booth for making these wonderful recordings. And my relationship is mother-in-law. It's kind of cool right now. Okay. So, how should we begin this? Well, I think

00:52 You've been having some issues with your memory. Oh my God. Yes. Yeah, we will we will hope that there is some memory left for this project.

01:04 Start with what's instead of going back and trying to remember stuff. Okay, let's let's pretend you've got a crystal ball in front of you. And what's in the future.

01:14 Oh my God. I wish I could think of something wonderful to say to be quite Frank at the moment the future looks extremely dim. And I'm very hopeful although it's funny. I spent some time today on the phone trying to find a program that I can get involved in that might help with some research and evaluation in someone for memory problems. I've been really trying very hard to find something I could get involved with because what's has been done so far in regard to the memory problems are hasn't helped and the

02:03 Well, I probably had some memory problems over years. He really serious decline started in the fall of 2004 after I came back from Amsterdam and it's just gone downhill precipitous we ever since and it's it's caused. I had to stop working which was really devastating because I loved working and it was not only the interaction with students and the intellectual stimulation in the Sun, but it was also a whole social World which I'm now isolated from and I've become isolated from a lot of the people that were in my life. So I'm lonely and done and I find it very difficult to come up with Kyra station because my what I didn't ever realize and there's no way you can realize it unless I have

03:03 Is that you or Eunice has to do with what you remember in your entire life all of your experience all of your knowledge, all of everything that makes you up is what makes you up and I feel like I'm not me anymore because I've lost most of that so that's some so that's kind of not a lot of fun. And when I look forward at the moment unless I can get some help it looks kind of way you can I'm hoping that that soon I'm trying to be positive. I'm trying to think things will get better. I'm trying to think I can get involved with things and you know make what is it to make lemonade out of lemons so that some that was a very interesting question to open with when you caught me completely off-guard maybe not necessarily the family. Well, I have gray.

04:03 Hope for my family. I think that for instant starting right here. I'm so happy that you and Kevin are together and that

04:19 The kids Zachary age 19-19-19 is not amazing who is a film student at Brooklyn College. He's doing very well and he has his lovely lovely lady and Magda. I didn't know her last name actually, but Magda who is also a film student. The two of them are like peas in a pod and they seem to work extremely well together. They seem to be so well suited to each other and they they seem to think alike they seem to work. Well they seem to get on well and they're happy.

05:05 Happiest really good, so I wouldn't be surprised if they lasted although you have given life wherever knows so you know how that goes. I wouldn't be surprised if you and Kevin last which I would love cuz I think you're awfully good for each other and usually is an interesting young woman. She's 13. She's blossoming. She said she fascinates me and both of them. All three of them really are so smart. I am being too often stunned and amazed and find a double difficult to keep up these days, but I'm very positive about the family. I think that you guys are really doing wonderfully well, and I expect you to continue to do wonderfully well, and I hope that I

06:01 I hope that I'm able to hang around and also be sentient enough to know what's going on and see you again. Oh continue to grow and prosper and and when I say Prosper, I mean not just economically but in every in every way for

06:21 For Christopher and they the Amsterdam family. I also have Great Hopes.

06:27 They also I need and Christopher are a wonderful couple. I think they complement each other just beautifully they are intellectually and emotionally and ethically really well matched and very happy together and they have two adorable children Sebastian who is for and it is who is to it is to right now is covered with chickenpox. Yeah. Yeah, she came down within 3 days ago and she's just so miserable boy baby, you know, she's just and Sebastian had them last week and he didn't have quite so bad a case and you know that every was very happy that you just hasn't gotten it. Hahaha. And naturally, of course you did and which reminds me of Christopher had chickenpox son is chicken pox when he got it. He was just like

07:27 Baby. I don't remember very well, but it seemed to me that it went on for quite a while which was you know, not a thrill.

07:36 They all got it Heather was in an infant when the boys got it. Kevin got it for them is really funny because they went through which often have been they went through the hole. Everybody has chickenpox thing and they didn't get it and I was like, hey great that I getting it and then about a week or two after everybody is finished having it Kevin got it and he had a medium case and then he bi that ended and then Christopher got it just hideously and Heather, you know has like three packs. That was the whole deal. So unfortunately, she never really got it cuz sometimes people get it again. So that was the chickenpox story get through it. Basically, that's all you can do, you know, I mean you hope that they won't scratch a lot and I don't know what you would do with it help with gloves.

08:36 Remember something if they did but no just you know, just be patient and it will go away and then it will be over and that's really really a what are the things that I just will throw in as a matter of knowing just anybody but one of the highlights of Christopher has chickenpox was that he became toilet changes bad time. And so you never know there's good and bad. Well, he was running around naked cuz it's very hot. And you know that may have helped you like wait a minute. So that's kind of a stupid thing to say is what I got it. I got a very good friend in age. So it's a whole new thing, you know, you have words of wisdom for Anita and Chris if they have I think they're doing the kids in the bunch.

09:36 Doing a fantastic job. They are.

09:40 They're constantly in reaching the experience of the kids not in a didactic sense, but everything is a learning experience and I mean going really into some depth and they read all the time and they do puzzles. And I mean it's not different really from what is it goes on with Zak and seizure where has gone on with that confusion and to some extent extent we were able to with my kids and probably with you when you were growing up cuz you certainly are you know, won't fabulously smarter than you know interested in Lively in all kinds of great stuff, but it's it's kind of fascinating to see that happen and to be able to sweat it from a distance participate and see people unfolding and blossoming and you just to know that they're going to be people who contribute something.

10:41 An important to the world and you know, really B pluses instead of minuses and part of the solution whatever that means that a part of the problem whatever that means. It's a big through its really a throw and then Heather I have hopes for Heather that she will, you know be able to flourish and get things going in a way that you'll be happy within that will be happy with and you know, she's got God bless her she sticks with it and she keeps going and sometimes it's very hard for her. I know that but you know, I'm I'm proud of her as a human being

11:21 And I have great hopes for her and wishes wishes wishes. Oh my God you I wish that her life will go well that she will find the kinds of first of all I would wish that she would find some professional success which would be wonderful and that she will have happy relationships with people and you know be comfortable in her life and be of it, I guess satisfied. I would like everybody to feel the kinds of satisfaction and rewards that, being

12:00 Instinct with yourself and reasonably satisfied with your life and I mean none of us are satisfied over time, but you know to be able to overall say you know, what?

12:16 Pretty good. Pretty good.

12:20 Excellent. How about

12:23 Motherhood

12:27 Tell me how you found out. You were going to have your first child. Oh my God, I felt okay at all that. Well, first of all, I had no intention of having children and Ira fact, I had no intention of getting married really really and goes to show you how surprised you can be. I was going to be as NBA career women. I was going to be eight and actresses pretty great star Yak Yak Yak & and just first I would just wanted to be a big movie star of Big Sky that I wanted to be a serious actress. You know, Julie Harris was my you know, my dream performer and someone everything's going back to ancient history, right? But I

13:22 I'm thinking of being a movie star do it started when I was a kid and then I got serious about it when I was about 16 and like that but I I went to Summer Stock, haha and as an apprentice and that summer, we were my my roommate and I we were living it was in Mountainhome Pennsylvania, which was very small town and it was at the Pocono Playhouse and summer stock company and where they did a show every week.

14:04 And one evening before the show actually started but once we had set up the stage and everything, I was sitting out back with my with a person who is staying in the same house that I was staying. We were staying at people's houses that lived here and a guy walked by and he had a black turtleneck t-shirt and black jeans and he looks like in our for all the world the absolute Greenwich Village phony that was commonplace at the time and he came walking up and I guess that's something to us and we felt so I certainly felt that he was a civilian and had no business being back there and rosemary thought he was really cute. She was my friend and I said, I'm very surprised. You know, what's funny and

14:57 Turned out that he had come up to replace and to become the technical director replacing somebody who is leaving and it was already several weeks into the season.

15:10 And it turns out alternate we were all Rose. Marie said to me a bit after we know he had sort of settled in. She said, you know that I'm going to be involved with that man, you know, and I would know please so we ended up getting married though. It is great romance at summer. It was funny. My parents came up at some point in the summer. I was no

15:37 Maybe I was trying I was 19 or 20 and we were doing a view from the bridge and I was playing mrs. Le. Somebody's wife and I had a fake wedding band on. I mean, I think I had three wise or something like that mostly was an extra and my parents took me out to dinner and they noticed the ring and I said, oh, you know, it's just a prop which it was but they had a heart attack and then I told them that there was this guy who were they very very not happy about that there even were not happy about it that he was not Jewish and that he came from the Midwest and that he was 28 and I was with L. I was eight years younger than he was and had no background and they didn't like any of this and they didn't like that's right. He wasn't you I wasn't a lawyer.

16:37 Doctor Indian chief. He was into other professional man blah blah blah blah. He was lower-middle-class blah blah blah blah. So he wasn't any of the things that they had in mind for third daughter.

16:51 But they come around eventually. It was slow. It was slow. I remember we were living in the East Village Dylan die and are not married at the time which was you know fairly racy at that point and

17:11 Where were we?

17:14 We were living together, but my parents didn't know we may have been living in the apartment that I had shared with a roommate who has gone to California, but

17:27 He got a job.

17:30 It sounds theater Upstate somewhere and we spent the last money. We had getting him a drawing board. He was going to be the designer and we decided on the basis of that we would you know, and now it's to my parents that we're getting married. So we went up on the subway on their forget it it was awful. He was nervous as hell. He was going crazy. I was nervous as hell cuz I was in the middle and I was going crazy and I cannot imagine how dreadfully bad way my parents would act and we we got there and we had dinner.

18:05 Which was filled with them and I was where was it was formal to put it mildly and then had dinner ended and I said to my parents so we had somebody to tell you and they said what I said, we're getting married and my father said well, that's very nice. I have to go to bed proceeded to stand up and go to bed and my mother spend the next two and a half hours to Arrow by my daughter my daughter and I'll take care of my daughter yet. It was pretty embarrassing. So that was when dramatic stuff you do in the in the whole thing that you that wasn't the question you asked. You asked me about motherhood. Okay. How did you feel?

18:52 To find out well.

19:05 Okay, I'm interested to know what life in the East Village was like when was this was this was 1957 East Village at that time? It was just the Lower East Side and we lived on East 4th Street between Avenue C and D are over there. We found a little apartment weather near Railroad Flat quiet, but it was through this would have been I was a little tiny apartment tiny tiny part in which was wall-to-wall roaches and it was cheap. It was $40 a month. We we had managed to get jobs do with the stage manager and I was just in stage manager on showing in them.

19:55 Actually, it was a it was a group of show is sad, but they opening one Wasted by this time is off and

20:04 We saw we were doing that and I mean I was making I was maybe making $20 a week and he was making $30 a week and we were rolling in dough, but we had this little apartment and we painted it. And in fact in one room, we did this some kind of a mural which was all these diamonds. You know, we did it with them when you call that the thing where you pull it in and the chocolate that we met all these diamonds and coloreds it did them all bright primary colors do everything on white. I've never had an apartment that wasn't White Walls and it was it was Ukrainian Ando Ukrainian neighborhood very mixed finalized we created it was very poor. It was very neighborhood. It was it was as I said way before the real estate people got hold of it and called to see Easton.

21:04 Play Joe very different, but there was something in his neighborhood. He there was something about it. That was kind of it was said there was a lot of also of Jews they're like from the old country and it was it was a it was a very unique kind of place and it was also very very far from really from Transportation. So when you went home at night, it was not easy, you know, you would have to take the 14th Street Crosstown and walk and walk or there was another some Subway that we went to a room where it was but so we lived there for 2 years.

21:46 And then I think it's two years now we moved up to

21:52 The Upper East Side was 90% 94th Street and 3rd Avenue. And we got a real Rush Flash and tell live there until feel that works at the Papermill Playhouse. And we moved out there to New Jersey. I am I got all I guess I guess we decided he decided that he wanted a child and I didn't want a child but he was so, you know, I was madly in love with him is okay, you know, whatever will have a child and then I went to my doctor and said, you know, we want a child and he said well you better start right away cuz it'll take a long time and it was like instantaneous to know Bingo and so I can pregnant with Kevin and then those days you couldn't find out what your trial was.

22:52 Male or female you just do with pregnant Friday. Yeah, and so we during that spring is a one night. There was working at the paper mill and I was doing a nursing class or something and I came home and told we had a little

23:13 What's that kind of thing where your Skylight in the bathroom and I came home and it turned out there was somebody in the closet waiting for me thankful. We had fallen asleep. But I got hysterical I ran out, you know, my neighbors were going to call the police and all that stuff and he'd apparently been coming into the apartment without anybody knowing and stealing stuff you lived in the neighborhood and that was pretty scary and we found out that I was pregnant. So we decided that we would move we got to do this was the one in in Yorkville. We started in the Lower East Side then we move to Yorkville and we lived, you know, as sort of a Bohemian Sunnyvale Bohemian life, the really disappointing him for me was when I married will I thought we would have this very Showbiz kind of, you know yet kind of life and he really wasn't all that interested.

24:12 He said he wanted to work on Broadway decided that instead of becoming the director. He wanted to be he would become a stagehand because we would be able to he would be able to make a living and he turned out that he never what you know, if he never moved out of that he would became a stage and he was stationed permanently, but we moved to Berkeley Heights and I had Kevin the following February. He was such a cute little boy who's beautiful. He in the hospital he was done. He was absolutely Alabaster, you know, he would no marks at all and he was very very pale blonde these big blue eyes, and they used to bring him around and show them to everybody else would have the model child everybody wanted to take him and that he was adorable and we went home and everything was fine. And I I was very I was in love with you know, the whole idea at that.

25:12 Play me. Once you're got a baby in your leg. Yes is wonderful. I'm going to be a mommy and I had always wanted to live in the country my control my parents into moving to wealth of suburbs, at least and I had no idea what I was getting into. So we lived in this Berkeley Heights, New Jersey, which was done. December was so small working-class suburban area and little did I know that I would end up in a place where you know, what people talked about was what you said that the kids and what you said the family and what you fed the dog and what you said the grass that was very different very different from life in that. So anyway Bill continue to work at the paper mill and Kevin Munoz. Sweet sweet little boy was just the nicest kid and remember whence bill got a job in a bus and truck thing and went on the road and when he was packing Kevin climbed into his suit

26:12 This is invited to go with him and Kevin would go out during the day and she would walk up and down the street going friends.

26:24 You know looking for a very happy we trying to get Palace to come out and play what else Christopher was born in about two-and-a-half years later. Kevin was born

26:44 I see if I can remember this is awful nice dates know but this is me these of these are days. I should remember February 27th 1962 Christmas born January 4th, 1965. Something like 2 weeks after I expected. Kevin was a couple of weeks. I mean, I always always always yeah, it was always that it was extremely nerve-wracking. Someone sent me a card saying that you're glad you're not an elephant. That's 22 months. And I said well, yes, I like I guess I am glad so, you know, that was that was that and some Christopher was an absolute characters also, very beautiful. Although when he was born. He was just a ugly ugly ugly. He's is faced with you is all wrinkles with scratched himself all up. He had this huge nose and he had this Reno black greasy hair.

27:44 I hear ya. Ya. He was just ugly. But by the time you threw my child was gorgeous people used to stop on the street and stare at him and has been gorgeous ever since but he was very very eccentric and what are the things to use to do with so we had a little blue blanket, you know what his little baby blankets and he would come creeping into the room with the blanket covering him. We called him the blue lump he would pretend that he wasn't really there and he would crisis you it also crossed his arms and refused to talk and

28:27 And in fact when time with my mother-in-law was their bills mother he wouldn't talk he was about to yourself. Then we talked he didn't talk to talk to Justin talk and and my mother-in-law woke up early and turned out that he came into the kitchen and you know is pointing it's cereal or what have you and she wasn't playing that game and she was like what you know, what do you want? It's finally said, oh For Heaven's Sake. I want some Cheerios to both and it was like, okay. So after that, you know, he it is blowing his cover. So if you would talk and then now I want you to join her. I don't know why I wanted a daughter because I figured that I didn't know anything about boys, but I did know a few things are bad girls, and I know how to sew

29:27 God can I get did I could do with a girl so I did some research and I found out that boy sperm swim faster, but die faster than girl Spurs and I so I had tried to figure out this elaborate saying about how I would work it out that I would have a girl I had a plan absolutely a plan and what did you do differently? Well, I would you know to the extent that I could figure out when I was fertile, we would start you know in and work on that at the beginning and then stop so that you know, hopefully everything it was all that time. And yeah and a neighbor of mine later asked me if I if I we know if I wanted to prove that that work at have to do it again, and I said not on your life no way.

30:27 That Heather was born May 5th 1967 in the operating room the operator delivery room. I was out so I didn't see her that usually what they do is they show you the baby and then if it's a boy they show the balls, you know, so it's like I now I understand and there was very important have a boy in those days. I didn't care but you do. Oh my God, they were people who have heart attacks if they had, you know, a girl instead of a boy was it was a big deal we didn't care but a lot of people did but this time I was certain that I was going to have a boy because that was my walk and how I went to the girl was going to have a boy and want to send it to you was a girl. I was beside myself I was so so so happy, so that was my that and I mean I tried

31:27 I was very uneven is invited because of my depressions which were sometimes really crippling but I tried very hard to be a good mother and when I was okay, I think I was a good mother but a lot of times I wasn't and the kids were largely on their own at those points and since bill was on the road a lot it was even more so I mean I had to run everything which I was not wonderfully good at especially when I was depressed. So that's something that's been very hard for the kids over time turned out later that I was diagnosed as being not just depressing but by well it was mad at repressive these days it to bipolar upscale. So that's what that is. I ask you some more questions. That's a big one.

32:27 Somewhere between a quarter and a third of my life to depression and I think I made a lot of really bad decisions bad judgment, possibly or partly fueled by that. I do I have regrets. I'm certainly very sorry that I have ended up at this stage of the game without any kind of value of pension without any kind of you know, really economic stability. Not a good thing to do with specially in this sentence. Of time when everything is so expensive and continuing to be and I guess you were never things I would have done differently. I've I've I've done a lot of different things in my life. I live lots of different as you said something about Kevin having what did you say when I talk about you to Kevin he he tends to come up with very different the stories and it seems like he's talking about a different person sometimes yeah.

33:27 And yeah, I would grandchildren and do different. Yes. That was true. I would I would love for Kevin to do something like that because I would love to know you know his his whole thing. I'd love Christopher to do what I love Heather loveday at everybody's Everybody's Fine of you and find out who the heck I was and who the heck I am. Absolutely absolutely and also because I have such impaired memory of my own history and in my own life, it would bring that more into focus of cuz sometimes if I'm reminded of something I go. Oh, yes, I remember that because both my long-term in my short-term memory or seriously impaired so it would be nice for that, you know to be able to tap back into it. Let's see what else I I did a number of things I was in

34:27 Short. Of time in which the designer I was an actress I did was a waitress. What else did I do? I taught became were a professor actually ultimately Twining which is a second language on a lot of traveling. Yes in the last I always wanted to travel my big dream was to travel the world since 1999 and 1992. I got to travel a number of times which was fantastic. I love it and if I were

35:03 West if I hadn't if it wasn't having a kind of memory problems that I'm having now and had wasn't scared a lot of the time I would want to continue traveling at a time. That was just wonderful. I spent several years doing radio WBAI. I did and cultural shows programming. I do children show for 2 years. I did comedy. I did various kinds of discussions. Yeah. I was up Iceland ality a person in every way and I mean, I really enjoyed that that was very nice. I did some riding. I mean of 10 a lot of a lot of different things actually and it's been a life and hopefully it will continue to be a life carry on.

35:58 What what has surprised you the most? Wow in anything really your careers your kids now well history, I guess one of the things that surprises me is how cruel people can be to each other historically and currently it surprises me that when such a mean-spirited time just drives me tremendously. It surprises me have varied life can be how exciting it can be how creative it can be beautiful. It can be and of course the day the Opposites as well, but

36:41 Change surprises me. It shocks me it intimidates me but it surprises me. You know how enormously life has changed just in the. Of time that I've been alive and these days to change. It's like everyday I wake up and I don't know what the heck is his new. I've been watching the television programming about you know, what grade presents to get people this year end.

37:07 Both what kinds of products are being offered that I couldn't even have dreamed up and love the price levels of things. You know, I mean dungarees that are $90 and up, you know by somebody a car or diamonds at you do a million things have gotten very very very expensive and present, you know, you buy some of the televisions that you buy them at computer you buy them in a really really funny. I'm like, you know, can I get together $25 room rental or so that's been a big surprise food food has become such a big thing. And I love food. I'm so hungry. I have been having no teeth lately. I haven't been able to eat in a long time but food started acting very very simple and ordinary when I was growing up and now it's become it's become not only so varied but it's become super Chic and it's like a thing.

38:07 It out and you can't go out and buy a simple thing of mushrooms is 65 different kinds of mushrooms in their world the blues Ultra Magnifique marvelous and you know everything, you know, you can't buy an olive is no 48 kinds of olives and throwing his over there was one of my students went I'm said to me one of my friends dude said to me and what is it with you Americans, you know instead of having milk you at six kinds of milk what's going on here and I feel that way a lot. Yes, absolutely. So I know you're safe sitter surprise me. Dad is with lots more. But those are the ones that come to mind in this particular day on this particular day.

38:54 Let's say okay tomorrow is your dream Day Wake Up & fabulous, whether you have enough money in your pocket. Oh my God. Oh my God, my dream day is that I have in mind and that I can think and now I'm feeling good and bad things because I have in mind among other things and it's a beautiful day. What would I do without having money something? I've never had I need just the notion of having being able to afford to do anything I wanted to do I would probably call a contractor and have my apartment 6 cuz it's a wreck I would be going on I go out and buy wonderful things for all the people. I love including I probably arrange for everybody to have a wonderful trip to Europe which would be fabulous. Oh my God, I would wander around and dance in the streets has where I would I would be the happiest person on Earth.

39:55 Yeah, I would I would give things to the people. I love that's the probably the biggest thing I would do and I would sing and dance. I really would when I'm happy I sing it Sam in a while, but I find myself sometimes if I find myself thing is item. Is that what I must be happy I'm singing. So yeah things like that I would do I would done I would try to organize I would hopefully be able to organize what you have been able to do for a while, you know, the stuff that I have pictures and you know the stuff that I left because a lot of it's gone and you know, maybe put together some kind of Heritage thing for the family which I think would be very nice. I would love it if we had kind of Heritage stuff for the family for the kids and the kids kids and what have you cuz I do I do hope and expect that they will

40:55 I want to have wonderful lives and the interesting delightful people. And and other than that, I mean, I hope to glory in the family that I have and to continue and hopefully with some of these programs. I'm trying to get involved with get some help with my mental situation so that I can be me because I don't feel like I am me these days that always be funny. Thank you, You're so sweet. I miss being funny. I miss being happy. I miss being energetic and sparkling and I mean I was always someone who is trying to learn I was I was trying to learn how to spell you know, I didn't always do it very effectively, but I studied I went back and took courses. I wish I was always interested. I was I was engaged and that's gone. And when I try to learn something now, I just can't because I can't remember anything. So that's very frustrating.

41:55 That was just things that I missed very much. And I mean, I feel like I'm not me. I miss me a lot. I likes me. Some days words of wisdom any words of wisdom.

42:10 No, no, no. Sorry about that. I would love to have some words of wisdom. I there's no connection. Just know there's no Bridge. The new me is like a zero. I feel like you know, my brain is a damaged hard drive and there's not much I can say about that. However, they must be sending happy I can end with I see if I can think of something positive to say. I can The only positive things I can think of would be things for my kids.

42:45 That would be it.

42:47 And I wish that I could just leave more of a legacy and say more wonderful positive things right now and maybe you know if things work out, I'll come back and say wonderful by something amazing Legacy so far. Well, I have a lot to learn from you. Thank you my dear. I appreciate that very much and and the That's all folks.