Michael Andersen and Amanda Davis

00:03 My name is Michael Andersen. I am 25 today is the 23rd of August 2006 to July 23rd of July and we're at the World Trade Center. And this is Amanda my friend and ex girl friend and former editor and sometime collaboration. I was going to say I'm 23, but that's not true. I'm 24 and have been for several months now. So I got to get used to that it's 23rd of July and we're at the alarm in a tanning booth by the World Trade Center. And it's Michael who you end on the list friend ex-boyfriend. Like ex boyfriend is a old boyfriend found out. That sounds better not like the expert.

01:03 Together and live together and each other pretty well.

01:07 So I said I would start with the questions and we have been talking about places different towns and places we've lived and what you like about big cities and don't like in small towns. And so why don't you what's what's your favorite place you've ever lived?

01:32 Stuff to separate the the places you lived from the things you've done and the people that are there, but I

01:45 I think I have.

01:52 I think they're my favorite place.

01:55 Has a place that I've lived with this probably Chicago. I really liked the

02:07 The

02:10 And I really like the

02:17 The sense that there were

02:25 There are things happening with the that the city felt cohesive in a way that

02:31 New York doesn't that DC felt cohesive but did an evil way and Longview feels very diffuse to me and but Chicago it seem like there's an identity and I really liked the at the same time that they release some identities there within this large right in and yeah, that's all. Strict. That's the biggest place that you live to the biggest city. Right? Well, that's right. I forgot to buy. I don't really count that. Yeah, it's true time to develop that sense though major daily runs everything. Okay is everyone else?

03:31 Kennedy shared identity that's a big thing for you a sense of shared identity. When have you when do you think you felt them a separate from place? Like like it's cool or like what that was the most remarkable thing about living in England than the fact that when I would

03:53 And I felt like it was especially strong that it would be on the on the left political the political left had this remarkable sense of shared history in England's that like I would go up to these these pubs and I use that I would open up my time out London. This is before they had timeout everything in the United States and

04:24 They would have these little listings that for folk singers that 30 people in London knew about and

04:34 So this doesn't prove my point, but that

04:41 So I I would go to the

04:44 The tub which way is off in the boonies somewhere, you know 40 blocks away from a tooth stop and

04:51 There would be a group of people meeting in the upstairs and people would throw out like references to William Blake and like and there is a sense of

05:10 The dis

05:13 This very

05:17 But yeah, they're there was a history to it. All that didn't come from.

05:24 Media is personal every week wheelchair in a funny noises. He was disabled.

05:40 Do you think you're drawn to really specific things partly because of that because you want this kind of shared.

05:55 I

06:03 Are you going towards like specificity has a way of connection?

06:16 The Newton

06:19 When I'm writing on my plan, for example that basically college wide bulletin board system that they have a Grinnell I

06:41 Everybody has their own little space on it. It's just remarkable. It's just remarkable to have all these people with this space. They can you. It just text so you just write things on it and

06:59 I am

07:03 I'm drawn to that. My favorite thing to do is to say something that I know that.

07:13 Some people will recognize and discover that somebody else knew about that. They didn't know anybody else know about and

07:24 And I do that. That appears when I'm writing to

07:31 Isn't that any reasons for wanting to write?

07:38 That it is. It's a it's a problem is that because the the journalist needs to push for the

07:49 General audience, I guess and the and I and that's what I want. I want to I want to be with General audience and I want to make that dinner lying to a specific audience right by this year, but that it doesn't and then fight time sometimes do something and down.

08:26 And something jumps out at you and you relate to it immediately. That's what I mean. It's very means like feels like having conversation with the writer. I think everybody loves that be having a conversation with me per se just wanted to see it in a newspaper, you know and know that like if somebody has the the balls to put that in a newspaper or the newspaper has the ball to print not eat there. I don't want to be picturing me a typewriter there Point as other people reading this today, right? It seems like

09:09 I don't know this life anything about you. Is that you?

09:13 You care about connection with other people so much and you look for it. And I know that you enjoy it so much and there we were talking in the tree in the way over here how it's hard to do it in person and it's hard to actually the conversations. Do you know if I don't know what what do you think? This is a big question or it's going

09:38 What do you think makes it hard?

09:42 For you to be able to have the kind of Connections in person that you try to have in writing.

09:48 Does that make sense?

09:51 I get it done fairly big.

09:54 I think he asked me.

10:09 Are you worried about how you express yourself out loud? And I guess writing in for me to like writing is you can sit down and you can think about it forever and come out just right and

10:22 And you can't do that in person. Obviously, I know that frustrates you about being able to communicate verbally as well as you want to and writing as well as he can in writing not too big. Okay you

10:40 Said today that you enjoy riding in a while and

10:48 I need you have memories of early memories of writing and thinking that you really enjoyed riding. Like when did that first happen when you leave? Thanks for thinking you I remember.

11:05 I think they're both in 5th grade. There is a there's an assignment where you had to read them. We're getting a Laura Ingalls Wilder broken it remember which one and you were supposed to write. I don't know if it was an alternative ending or like a different chapter something and I wrote this.

11:22 Thank you. I was realizing Leaf fifth grade.

11:28 But I'm I just enjoyed it so much and it was it was something this is also think part of how I like to write is starting with something that's already there until your dad says blocked and you had these characters and you just said to you know, come up with another situation for them and

11:47 And I really likes doing that and I liked working with him this sort of framework.

11:53 And I thought it was really good and I I'd suppose there's something about was like Christmas and they were unwrapping something there on wrapping presents. And one of the I think the girl who's like for who's who's the mean Laura cisler? You know why? I don't know. Anyway, it's from her perspective on patient. She was so she wanted to snatch this present of her like parents and this is like rip it open for a while. Anyway, I remember that and I also wrote this book again with this is kind of theme in this this was like the framework where we had to write a Magic School Bus book and I read about the Magic School Bus goes into a tree and like all of the, you know, parts of the bargain the you know, the phloem in the I don't remember anyone anymore and Illustrated out into that was extra special. This is the first thing to remember really liking to write and then

12:52 I don't think I really thought about creative writing for a long time until like high school again, and then it was

12:59 Who is slick writing group where I swear? I'm at my high school boyfriend Charlie where it was lots of eggs and like you carry around your notebook and like you know book was the most important thing in the world cuz it had your thought you're really original thoughts and your laugh and since after that when I started like journaling more frequently and since then system like I don't even want to know these things exist anymore I do but there's also something about that. I mean, it's there something good about writing as a process of having ideas because I don't think I really think about things until I make myself right about them.

13:45 And

13:47 I wish I wish I did I mean I wish I could kind of make myself pee is conscious about what I'm seeing as I am when I'm writing but

13:55 Manatee miserly examples, where did that though? It were know they were that's true so did

14:11 With what?

14:13 Can you think of any times when since then that same like we will win the right away when you've received something through writing?

14:24 What's a recording that?

14:27 Yeah. Yeah, I think I am.

14:32 I did write a kick-ass. Valedictory valedictory speech when I graduated. That was very good. But I don't think I've I don't know what size in the journalism stuff which is different. I mean, it's not entirely different but I haven't written a lot for like people to see I almost died and I had to take that fiction didn't have to take that fiction classy and I made myself think that fiction class but I was very scary because it was your creativity and and it's out there on display or the lack of it is out there on display and that's very scary.

15:13 Yeah, I don't I don't know. I feel like writing or maybe you know this radio production thing is the closest I could get to.

15:20 Performance of some kind cuz it's so, you know you removed in silver and it's just out there in the world and feel like you have to walk onto stage.

15:31 Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if there's other things I mean the radio is definitely.

15:37 I don't know it was about you know, it wasn't exactly about me is only going to have relations about me but to have something to like gather all this sound or you know, all these observations or whatever and then to make them into something with a form and to have that form be dictated by how closely and carefully you're looking and what you see and structure comes from that it's a great process I love and that's why I liked liked writing features better than I liked writing news because the structure was going more for us and you couldn't like you be so many possibilities. I know that you didn't like that though are we talked about it one time and you said

16:24 Well, I didn't realize the extent to which features have form or at least I didn't I wasn't enough familiar with a wide enough range of them in now that I feel like there's some some formulaic features. I can Embrace those.

16:41 Trim profiles in Obits in profiles

16:48 Yeah, what do you think about about writing? Cuz now you're in a job that's not as much writing as you want to be doing. But I know that you do you want to be a writer. Do you what? Why do you worry that you talking about? You're not good enough right now to do it without an editor without a net do you think?

17:11 I don't know. How do you see yourself getting there so that you can do that.

17:25 I think that.

17:31 I had this awful relationship with my publisher and I was telling you about in and I keep making

17:41 One little mistake after another when it comes to him like

17:46 Telling him that package that we bought to have streaming video on the website doesn't actually have streaming video and then I'm wrong about that. But I sent him something saying that I was learning one misstep at a time.

18:11 That cling to that idea since writing it.

18:19 But I am making progress.

18:27 Error about tattoos humans back when I had written the story that I had quoted somebody who in in the story who hadn't actually returned our calls and I've written down his name is somebody that I should talk to at the bottom of another interview and then I should be at the whole interview to him because his name was on the note and

18:50 The

18:52 And my my editor

18:58 Who?

19:03 Is just hugely.

19:11 Emotional guy over the course of a day like you can you can ride the roller coaster with him everyday if you want to and but he's he's really charming and unassuming and

19:29 He

19:32 He said that and Edwin when it came out when we discovered the design made this mistake he

19:42 Call me over because he and his boss needed to talk to me about how this was a serious error and so on which I do and he said

19:53 Everybody does this I remember this same thing happened to me when I was a young reporter. And he also came to the Daily News ran out of grad school at age 25 and another Mountain blew up and he got a Pulitzer for it and it's right Mountain blew up something that traumatic happened. So I feel like there's this whole epic thing that I was like,

20:25 And I'm a part of that. I'm being compared against success. Not not that I mean, I don't that sounds like I said, I'm being compared to it anyway, so and then he was apologizing to me for disciplining me and it was just awful. It was awful to think of me making a big of a mistake and

20:57 And then have fun.

21:01 When did Andre apologizing for it for for trying to make me not doing but I need to.

21:13 I'm such a slob when it comes to like organization organizing my work and my notes and things but now I only open one eye when we have one for every interview and I have a folder for every story and a a different document for every interview with the name of the document as the person and I was there is no way I could have done that if I internalized that's exactly what I said and told me what that is like, this is just going to make you calm me down that week. I had a rough week.

21:55 But anyway, so I need to do that that I think I want to get there a lot of things working in my habits, I guess so that was that was what I meant when I said write those things that you can fix them for me need to do you make mistakes and get better. I mean you definitely better than you were.

22:15 You know in college, right? That's true. I always thought it was amazing what you did when you went to grad school and you have to go out and do these man-on-the-street things and I wouldn't listen to it. It was terrifying I was so impressed all the stuff that you did. I thought I would be awful and I know it's it's not that bad. He's right. You just have to get out there and the good thing about it. I think about being a reporter or whatever is that you have this thing with her to make her phone or it's so, you know here, you know, it's and you have permission. I feel like to go

23:01 And I mean, it's it's real. It's a little like a superhero power if you like it so you can go and talk to these people and of these places that you wouldn't then you don't need to have a reason cuz hear you I have a microphone to reason like nobody needs to know. I don't know maybe this is kind of like a shield like you're nonentity sort of like you just as microphone with questions, and I don't know I think it's always hard to I feel like I wasn't the kind of justify like, why are you here? You know, what are you with? What are your reasons explain yourself? So you don't have to do that when you're a reporter. I mean you do but it's like they did the reason is intrinsic, you know, you are interesting. That's why I'm here and people love that. You know, she loves to be interesting they feel like that sound.

23:50 One of the really good things. I also feel like

23:55 Oh, I feel like I've always had a kind of a hard time with deciding what I wanted to do or you know, I'm pretty easily distracted. I think of ways reading like 6 bucks a timer to have been doing lately. I've just been reading one book at a time and so much more satisfying but having a hard time deciding what to focus on and I think one of the great things about trying to write is that it makes you you have you just have this Focus like you're at and running about you are everything you do is interesting and I have to try to see as much of it as possible and I think it it just makes me it come with me in a certain way and lets me focus and it makes me feel like I'm a better listener and all that stuff.

24:45 I don't know if any of that stew for you, but I think that's one of the things I like about writing the best. It's kind of strange that you send to analyze everything, but I don't know why I like it better when you were.

25:15 Do you feel like 30 people react differently when you have a microphone to win the oven pencil?

25:22 No, I think I think it takes then gives more layers of explanation that are necessary when you have a microphone just because is this an so funny how many people think it's TV is going to be on the TV and like BBC a camera. Do you see any kind of Aveeno visual equipment? They don't say that, of course, the radio has everyone has one but now I think there's an initial self-consciousness that's really there with microphones that

25:52 Cuz way after a while but that's pretty much the same process. Do you like to the writing you on? Do you want to hear a journalist right away and I can college right when you first got there a member. Was there like an epiphany moment?

26:25 Remember David shribman who is actually turns out a columnist for the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, which is the sister paper of the Toledo Blade and it was my my childhood paper.

26:41 He came he was the second article. I wrote for the SMB and I mean he came in you as a speaker.

26:56 It been a adjunct Cornell a few times.

27:00 And he was fascinating. I don't remember it very much of what he said, but he was he was funny and he

27:11 Had opinions which I understood and could summarize and

27:19 So

27:25 Yeah, and then I I I decided that I if I could.

27:35 Spend time with people like him.

27:38 Then that's what I want to be. There was a

27:45 Hunter Thompson

27:49 Interview with PJ O'Rourke. Yeah, it's more the people you want to be with the thing. You want to be doing necessarily and Friday.

28:28 Projects daily projects and it's a big difference you like teams. Do I like teams to

28:39 The only way then I can never get anything done by like the seljuk here for a little bit. That was a great team that we had when we were in school. I don't know. I don't know. I mean it like that but there are we know we're doing well if we do know he's not we're doing but we we I don't know we were all we knew what people are good at and we could

29:15 I can work together and no great way. That's all.

29:24 How we can talk about this kid Segway Segway. I yeah, that was the suicide issue is the the mode that was not like the crowning achievement is let's see, I remember so

29:55 I had to write a profile Jonathan. I felt really bad for you because of the I mean, I didn't feel bad. It would seem like a huge job to play catch-up on right? Well, it was sitting in a room with three of his friends and trying to get them to talk about him and you know a couple days after he died it was

30:26 I don't know, but it was also.

30:31 I was also so good. I mean obituaries a really wonderful things to write. Actually. I I know I don't know. I feel like they get made fun of like that people write obituaries and he's favors and their amazing things to write if I could write obituaries all the time. I think that would be an amazing career. You have a point maybe nine out of 10 calls that we get. I would say or negative about articles you write except for obituaries and nine of Pentacles are positive. It has such potential to be done right to just mean to so much and mean you no more than almost any other kind of writing that appears in newspapers. I think not to say that so yeah, so this was the first

31:21 Art to to be traces of the first one in there at the one of Pam Ferguson those that do but this is sad and harder way.

31:29 Yes, I wrote this. I talked to had friends of his coming in, you know and like Rachel was coming in. And myrrh, maybe she was calling I said people coming kind of all nights and and I know what time it was a year and this is like 1 in the morning or something and I showed it to Katie it to you first. You remember any of this? Okay, I think I did because what I remember is I

31:55 I may be just showed it to you. Anyway, I showed it to Katie and she

32:01 She said basically need to restructure this whole thing. And I thought I was going to scream or cry or I hated her so much at that moment. I was irate and and she explained what she meant and made perfect sense and obviously right and use it that points to remember said something like oh, yeah, that's right. That's why I didn't say anything. If a certification to say, it went back in the room and I restructured the saying it was much much better and

32:43 The first line was really good. I was about his voice anyway.

32:47 It's just it had a purpose. I think that helps with the feeling of I don't know this team and I momentum had such a purpose and we knew that was going to be important to people because nobody knew.

33:03 I talked about this thing's and everybody was so traumatized and them and we working so hard and we did it. So well, it was really on the best things. He did. I don't know what you want to talk about in regards to that.

33:22 I wasn't going to the things that I was thinking more about the newspaper. That's okay, but the second.

33:38 When Jonathan killed himself, it didn't seem mediately like we need to do something there didn't seem like the thing to do is to make a newspaper like that. It seemed like the thing to do was to

33:51 College classes it just seemed like

33:56 Well, that's too bad.

34:03 I didn't know how to.

34:11 I want to say this cuz I don't think I've

34:15 Toilet talk about it.

34:18 Ever there was a guy.

34:25 On the the South Beach swimming pool. Do you remember this? Keep telling me like the broken to Jonathan's room and he and he was he knows a sunny day. It was the end of the year and he was like drinking a beer or something and

34:53 Hi.

34:58 And I thought he was making fun of the whole situation. Like he just kept sitting there and is sitting this weekend is little like blow up swimming pool with water like with his hands draped over the back and like the counter breaking into this guy's room and we all knew figured out what was going on. This crowd is gathering and and I and I thought he was like mocking it and it just the fact that it would be impossible for somebody mock. It was that was like how

35:22 How I didn't hear Reverend it all seemed at before the Reverend set in like a couple days later and

35:32 He was probably dying inside. He probably had no idea what it's like, how do you get out of swimming pool situation walk away from a crowd of people pick up your beer.

35:43 And yeah, so

35:48 I didn't know.

36:02 Didn't know how

36:05 How big a deal would be?

36:07 Yeah.

36:09 Give me an attitude turn out and I don't I don't know how much of it was because I decided that needed to be a big deal and so my emotions emotions kicked in but it was a big deal to me emotionally.

36:26 You think of it frequently?

36:29 No.

36:32 Whenever someone talks about suicide don't talk about only about that guy, I think about the

36:38 Extent to which weekend?

36:45 That's the case with any any violence. It's just time.

36:49 Had this closer relationship with suicides than other types of violence.

36:55 Yeah, I think that changed its given to contacts to a lot of things cuz I hadn't felt.

37:02 Was it one of the great things about grandmas that you know that you are community on community isn't I hadn't?

37:11 Felt the particular kind of panic that happens when a community experience is something like that and it's scary. I mean they're sitting in

37:23 One of those group one of those big, you know of circular bunch of people in the room, and I don't know and there's this feeling because it was there's a lot of sadness. Of course. There's also this anger and there is this really kind of scary feeling that something there isn't unpredictability and it's like the normal, you know, my social rules or whatever weren't really there cuz people would just break down, you know, and I'll look and and down

37:56 Yeah, there was there was this some the sense of

38:01 I don't I don't know. It's just the saddest anxiety is more than anxiety. But you know, I talked to Katie about how whenever you would after the second one. When you hear phone the rain, you know are people that come in the room like suddenly you get scared and just that little experience. I think his help me understand a lot about you know, people were in any kind of serious traumatic situation, you know, whether it's in an abusive home right now living in a war zone. I like things on these much grander scale. Just to have experienced that like, yeah when the entire situation feels unpredictable and unsafe and people seemed so volatile. Yeah, that was very different is unlike anything I've ever experienced waitress is my high school to yeah, they were

38:57 1 2 3 like three in my high school Emoji in like Junior High come by and I like to Junior High's in high school. I think this was all in 1 year to I don't know if I feel like it was my senior year.

39:10 That was supposed to print it was a community like Grandma's cuz you know what size it was Big. Lots of clicks another word incur now but it wasn't the same and that was it was mostly used with favor moved. It was weird and it was sad cuz you walk to school one day and everything was things were very different but didn't have that same sense. So just so you know, there's a moon in the same way that like if you know someone that they've been like some really traumatic breakup like in the lunchroom like that kind of like there's just a sort of like weird energy. That's not worth it for now though. I was the friend.

39:50 Anyway, yeah, I don't know. Did you have other things going to say about that in particular? Yeah, that was after I keep forgetting. It was your senior year and that was very weird graduation and

40:06 And sitting and kitties porch in like it's at. Did hail that. Yes, it did held like I don't know it was like the

40:23 If your sarcasm or something, okay, like a conclusive type of thing like like there are tons of ice falling from the damage to my car.

40:46 And tell Siri Apocalyptica did very glad that you're not that point anymore. I'm 5 cents been very glad. I'm not in college. I mean, I think it was kind of glad at the time but I miss I miss having people around people fascinating people everywhere just tripping over them obviously missed that but you're so far away from all these Fascinating People here in no, obviously this Fascinating People here, but you know, it's all the same when you're living with people and you have this chance to know people almost effortlessly really. Well. Yeah. I miss miss that I think I could try to cultivate those kind of situations and and places RI worker.

41:44 Whatever. I remember that you said that about

41:47 Like what you like salt so much was because it was a self-selecting group of as many people and that's so that the solution for finding Christian people was to find things that you will be motivated to do. Yeah, it's still true guys back to the shared experience.

42:06 Cuz

42:08 Do you have other questions you want to ask me but I know nothing but I'm happy to think of questions. Do you think yours here or not? Oh, how much time do we have left is a 500K. That's okay. Do you?

42:40 See your mentions your life and like in the future in like 10 years or what some whatever whatever arbitrary number you want. Do you imagine the kind of where you want to live or the kind of life? You don't have her anything like that since you want to talk except that I already did so I don't know I

43:09 Indefinitely

43:14 Want to be in a place by then that I can be for 10 more years stay in the same place.

43:28 A job that will take me off that I could start raising kids on it and

43:34 Somebody to do that with and the job that would be

43:44 Would have room for growth within it. So it's taller deals on Route. Okay, okay.

44:00 Five year plan. Do I think I stink?

44:11 I know I think I have to have some kind of.

44:15 Immersion in some other sorts of kinds of life before I know what I want. I still haven't ever lived abroad.

44:26 I don't know. I've never really pushed myself to being a place. It's very unfamiliar. I think it's important to do that.

44:37 Wesley the stink of the kind of person I would like to be and how I would like to be

44:46 Uno Comer. Comer

44:50 Maybe, maybe just more like okay without things are just

44:56 Okay with you know with myself and and I guess it's just more like to pay more attention and be more aware of what's going on around me and

45:07 And to be able to have

45:12 Cannot be like thinking all the time about you know, wearing about things are like thinking, you know things out and fan some like planning and developing a no backup plans and you know, all of these kind of things that I tend to do I think to this point of my life is sort of hindered me having very having experiences where I was really and just there and and remembering details and all that kind of stuff. I would like to be more physically rooted in the world. I think as I get older, I hope that can happen. But other than that, I'm not sure I don't have any concrete ideas of where I want to be here.

45:56 What precisely want to be doing? I want to try a lot of things and

46:03 And you know how babies eventually going to get worked in their biological clock, you know the ticks.

46:09 Pacific yeah, but yesterday when I would like

46:21 You are

46:22 I was surprised to have you say that you were wanting to be a better Observer. Have you felt like you've ever failed to observe something all the time?

46:34 Who sings all the time? I just don't I don't know. It's it's different noticing things about the situation.

46:45 And actually being in the situation and restarting it is to just be aware just of yourself and your reactions. I think always this kind of looking out and I know

46:59 I don't know. I don't know. It's Tina. What's the difference between like if you're if you're reporting something and year you have to be looking at all that stuff versus when you just there and you're looking around because it's pleasurable to look around and near you know, you just here in it different kinds of observing.

47:24 What did you say you said that I secretly know everything about everyone that's a pretty accurate description of its I thought about that since I've been kind of proud that it's applied to me, but also aware of false it is so it's nice to see that.

47:54 They have other questions.

48:16 I don't know these causes. I never know if you're actually have one that you're trying to work out how to say or if you're trying to think of on okay, this is great good.

48:34 Yeah, me too. It's a good line of work.