JP Ducro and Mason Hickman

00:00 My name is Mason Hickman. I am 23 years old. Today's date is July 7th, 2020. I am located in Columbus Ohio. The name of my partner is JP ducro and I do not know him.

00:24 Though, my name is JP Dubrow sold as of May 14th.

00:31 Today's date is the 7th of July 2020. I am disputing in this exercise from Ashtabula, Ohio today, and this is my first time.

00:49 So Mason, could you sort of some of your life story for me and in a couple of minutes? So I guess I I was born in rural Windham Ohio town of less than two thousand oaks live there for 18 years very very small town religious community. And I moved to Columbus to study at Ohio State in 2020 16 and you know, I studied political science and women's gender & sexuality studies. I've been involved and interested in politics since I was maybe Fourteen and it was through college that I actually became very involved in the Reproductive Rights.

01:49 You know or whatever you call it, and it's something different and it was you know from there at that. I ended up doing a lot of organizing and you know, just getting involved in my community mobilizing people and now I work for a very large Nationwide Reproductive Rights organization. And I also identify as someone who is queer and also transgender I would say that's a pretty brief overview. How would you sum up your life story in 3 minutes or less?

02:35 So I am

02:38 Boy erased theater in Ashtabula

02:46 Dial

02:51 My wife

02:54 Work daughters ages 14 12 19 20 months. I became elected as commissioner and I will Community but spite of those things. I really don't know better our community serve our community. I also enjoy running.

03:50 I added another hiccup question Mason. Do you want to start with this one? Sure in your own words describe your personal political values. What are the most important issues for you personally?

04:11 So I would I would I'm a registered Republican but I would consider myself a very middle of the road literally probably more liberal on social issues are socially liberal communities more so than at the higher level.

04:58 What are my favorite favorite things that there's no partisan pothole and I don't think it matters whether you're a Republican or a Democratic Nation wants your opinion infected with Public Safety and one more businesses to get those.

05:27 Hibachi Mason what the how would you describe your political values and to be very highly involved with so so, you know, I was too I would probably say about the same socially liberal but but identify as fiscally conservative.

06:00 And so, you know growing up. I I didn't really think a lot about politics until I was

06:09 Around 14 and I I realized that I was part of the lgbtq community and I I looked around me and I saw that, you know, there were not nothing. So maybe two weeks ago.

06:27 Protections in employment for her folks what part of the lgbtq community in housing or public accommodations and it was real for me to realize that when I wore that was kind of created without me and mine has always been very important to me access to Safe legal abortion is important to me has always been

07:16 Healthcare equity for all folks access education very important things like that.

07:26 Yeah, I would say those are things that have always been very close to me.

07:34 Yeah.

07:42 Yeah.

07:44 So I was going to ask out of curiosity. What did you think when you first read my bio?

07:58 I would say that I thought it would be a very interesting conversation because I have some friends that I went to HighSchool with and that that I consider friends on though. I don't spend a lot of time socially with them that are members of the LBGTQ Community, but I thought would be very interesting conversation because it's a perspective that I haven't had the opportunity to have a lot of conversation directly with folks about and sometimes those are

08:32 Conversations that may be difficult to strike up just in a social setting, you know it public and you know what we're supposed to talk about those things.

08:46 And I and I guess I also thought you know based on your bio that you must have. It must have been hard for you growing up with the you know, some of the you know, challenges and experiences. That would be important for me to understand more about our conversation.

09:09 How about you what you think of me?

09:17 AK can my my grandma used to actually work for a funeral home. She's retired. But yeah, I mean, I I think I was I was definitely curious to see if you know what we would talk about and you know learning about your life experiences because I would say, you know, it sounds like where you're from is very similar to to my town growing up and

09:48 You know these kind of conversations can go so many directions, but I thought it would be interesting definitely.

09:59 I was curious. So when you say fiscally conservative, I know that can mean a lot of different things mean a friend for everyone. But what does it mean for you?

10:13 So I

10:19 I guess one of the things I would say is that.

10:23 I'm probably not a very black and white person. I always think that there are gray areas and in so many different areas and it could be wishy-washy, but I think you know, I can always see when they're from the exceptions to a general rule. I would say, you know the kind of a thought process or concept of providing a hand up not a handout teach a person to fish as a post as opposed to give a person a fish.

10:54 Being personally accountable for your own decisions your own actions, certainly when it comes to finances and I think

11:10 I think a frustration maybe that I would have when it comes to governmental involvement with

11:19 Finances is

11:24 The challenges of providing resources to folks that can use the assistant need the assistance but yet recognizing

11:39 Probably I would question the decisions that they would make with their own personal finances that lead to probably creating greater dependence on the government and other entities to continue to provide more financial assistance. And so, you know, I think that that's something I don't I don't know that there's an easy fix to that. I recognize that there that maybe a not the majority of people that do that but I think it's clear that it happens and I wish that there was a more controller accountability that we can have as a country over that because I I hate to see people take advantage of systems that are in place really to help them and put people that are

12:29 Willing and able to help them and do help them.

12:34 To continue to have to make sacrifices to be able to help folks that don't make decisions that maybe help themselves. So that's kind of my

12:46 Focus of fiscal conservative

12:51 Oh, yeah, that makes sense. That's I would say that is a common belief at least where I am from so what you said, I have also heard in the spaces that I grew up in. So I'm curious as to your response saying it's a common belief belief it would mean to me sounded that's not what you believe is is an accurate portrayal. I mean, I think that I say believe just as in like opinion your opinion.

13:33 I would say my my beliefs on it have definitely grown. I mean, I guess I'm only 23 but you know, I would definitely credit moving to Columbus as where is the place where I have learned a lot and grown a lot personally and I think

14:00 New having grown up around that being the opinion of a lot of folks around me cluding my parents.

14:12 I would say that my opinion on the matter as complex as it can be as kind of shifted to.

14:22 You know well

14:25 Should housing should access to food should all these other things be.

14:34 A human right?

14:38 In terms of like having what you need.

14:43 Tell Liv And I think the other part of that is also.

14:51 When we think about folks who are who need to be

15:00 You know on on public assistance programs for an extended. Of time instead of looking at

15:10 Martin had like painted as a motive sometimes but instead of looking at you know, like why are they choosing to be on these programs more so looking at why did they end up on them in the first place? You know because I think that

15:25 There are a lot of systemic barriers that I really never thought of until.

15:38 Meow moving to a bigger city and a lot of things that I learned about oppression that I never understood coming from a smaller town. I think I guess I would I would question not question. I would ask. What are your thoughts on the idea of?

16:05 Free Housing free education and having those things be accessible to all people kind of like regardless of the resources that they have.

16:20 So

16:22 I think

16:27 I think Free Housing and free education are important things and I think but I think that I think it's reasonable to ask their to be in a limitations are caveats on them to some extent. So for an example, I would say, you know free housing.

16:52 I think that's a

16:56 It's discouraging to me to go into housing that I know it's free and see it. So incredibly sometime this is see it, you know, just destroy walls punched out filthy garbage and I've experienced this because I've as a funeral director. I've been in all kinds of circumstances.

17:28 It's kind of weird that personal accountability comes it. If you know, I am providing you with a place to live and a roof over your head and shelter and protection.

17:39 Am I as the government or some entity your landlord or whomever title to some degree of respect to be provided to that which I'm providing for you at no cost to you and you know from a from a food perspective, you know, I think certainly we need to make sure people are fed. I think one of the things that's unfortunate is that the degree of flexibility that we provide for EBT cards and and food distribution Pro who distribution is usually pretty good quality and help you think but when you can take your EBT card and go in and get Snickers bars and Cheetos and things that inherently are contributing to probably a lesser quality of Health that intern there's a greater likelihood that we may need to provide.

18:39 Higher levels of health care for to combat diabetes or other, you know medical issues obesity. I think that we we should find a way to

18:55 We should find a way to try to help provide healthy alternatives for Quality alternatives.

19:04 And the expensive it is somewhat of a challenge to because I know many folks will make those purchases at the Circle K or places where those things cost two and three times more but I also recognize the best the function of transportation and food deserts and access to good quality food as well. And I think we need to find a better way to bring, you know farmers markets some of these communities or you know,

19:33 Access to healthier food choices more affordable food options, but yet have some control and not have it be looked at as you're violating my rights to choose what I want to eat and

19:51 I think it would it would set a better example, it would be a better use of resources that we have to help the community. So I think that kind of addressing the housing thing is another I think many times programs in in Free Housing.

20:09 Include utility costs that may not be the case in all situations. But you know, I keep my thermostat set in my house usually at 68u00b0 and I walk into many houses that are in a complexes that are government-subsidized with with a door wide open in the winter in the temperature about 80 degrees inside. And yes, we all need to keep warm and we all need to make sure that we are you know, healthy and safe but there's a significant cost of that and I think we're still would be these being very Humane if we said, you know,

20:47 There's a there's a tap on the temperatures in this room. And if it's cold weed we need to you know, maybe provide an additional.

20:55 Sweater blanket or clothing or something like that? I think you know Witt wastefulness wastefulness is something that's plaguing our community and its if that's from all levels of socioeconomic groups. We become such a throwaway society and I think we taking things for granted whether we can live a bountiful life and can afford anything. We want or whether we are in a situation where many things may be provided to us from other things and I think

21:27 Across the Spectrum. We are just very wasteful and spend resources that could be better allocated for other things that help others that get wasted on things that are probably not

21:39 In the best interest in each other and in the end of the community.

21:44 What's longer than a 3-minute answer? Probably I'm sorry, okay.

21:49 Yeah, when I think about waste, I think the first thing that pops into my mind is Jeff Bezos of Amazon because I think

22:01 I personally can't speak out a half of anybody but I don't think that anyone should have that much. Well when you know, like you mentioned there are folks living in food deserts. And you know, I'm from a food desert my my hometown the last grocery store that we had would like real produce clothes when I was maybe 16 or 17 and you know, I would say I'd probably three out of five folks where I'm from don't have cars.

22:41 And the next closest real grocery store is you know the next town over and

22:49 You know for a lot of folks where I'm from it really just became survival and you know.

22:58 I personally am okay with folks on Yo EBT getting you no candy or what-have-you. I think that they still deserve those things. But you know, I also do think that

23:11 You know, our communities need that our resources. I think that our community should be

23:20 More ran by folks who live in it as opposed to folks who are never going to visit it, you know.

23:37 But yeah, so I think we'll first of all I would I would say that spent at least in small communities like Wyndham maybe and I would consider Ashtabula similar. I think it's it's probably a lot easier to

23:53 Get into a position to have a say in decision-making and run a community than many people think I would say that many folks that I encounter that will and I'll complain about the state of things. They very rarely will come to a public meeting. They very rarely will call the public official. They very rarely will put themselves out there to be in a position to try to make the decisions that they seem to think will be better. And so I have a big encourager in anybody that shows an interest in

24:28 Government or politics to to encourage them to try to Foster that because I think it's rare nowadays for to put yourself out there cuz it's extremely challenging and no matter.

24:42 Which side of the spectrum that you're on?

24:46 You're always going to make decisions that are going to really here at 8 some people and that's always been hard for me as a people person and a people-pleasing person and a business owner where you can always say the customer is always right and make things right for that one particular individual.

25:06 When you're making a decision in the public sector

25:12 Anytime you make it right for one individual that complains you're inherently going to have a beer on for another individual and that's

25:21 I think that's why it's so important to get all sides of the story and to get as many perspectives as possible. So then make a decision. And then that's also why I think it's important to be able to stand by defend your position in your decision. Even if you know people aren't going to necessarily agree with it. I would hope they would respect the fact that at least you took the time to get it. Yeah, I would say one thing that I've noticed. I know you mentioned it. It's rare for folks these days to get involved. I'm one of the things that I've seen in my last year two of work is that and it could be different for smaller communities. I haven't really been back to Wyndham in Us in the last five years to really make that call, but I know at least in bigger cities like Columbus.

26:15 Getting politically involved can be really an accessible for a lot of folks. I mean, we're by the state house and even then, you know their hearings that they have are anywhere between 9 a.m. And 3 p.m. You got folks were at work. If you don't have work, you got to figure out child care, even if there's a, you know Community event in the evening, maybe like writing letters or something like that.

26:42 You know, you have a car to get there, you know the big city. You can't hardly walk everywhere. And even then again, you know childcare things like that. And so it's interesting cuz I feel like when folks are able to get involved and were able to connect with them. They have so much to say I just wish it was easier to to reach people says curious about like pudding like bringing it to the upcoming 2020 election that were having and how divisive we are as a country right now. I put in the chat, you know, when you think about the teacher what do you most scared of? I wonder if that

27:38 If you guys had any thoughts for each other about, you know, just how divisive we are in this country right now. That's my election the teacher if anything's through Sparks your mind on that and then I'll

27:55 Go ahead and ask you when you think about the future. What are you most scared of?

28:13 And I'm up I'm a pretty positive glass-half-full person.

28:20 So I don't know that there is anything in the future that I you know, really?

28:29 Spear personally, I guess it's a general fear would just be

28:41 Continue Division and instead of finding ways to see common ground to

28:50 And and the concern of always

28:55 Having to be right or be fearful of being perceived as weak if you admit that you made a mistake or you know what I think

29:11 Those are just inherent challenges within our country that are going to be very hard to overcome. And you know, I guess I don't fear them as much as I regret them feel bad about them.

29:32 I guess I wouldn't say that I have any pressing the fears that I

29:39 You no worry about specifically for my family. I guess. I just think for the country as a whole that I've ever I want. I want to see us be more respectful and kind to each other and I'm not a I'm not a very religious person, but I think the words that we speak how we treat each other is probably the best lesson that we can live by.

30:16 Yeah.

30:18 I hear that I think.

30:23 I think that I have a lot of fears about the future in terms of you know, the 2020 election, but I think one of the biggest ones is not knowing if my

30:46 Existence will be fully protected under the law weather that you know, like I mentioned if I ever want to apply for an apartment or if I need a public service out at some kind of shop, you know, when the clock me is trans and but even bigger than that, you know.

31:12 Under this current Administration we've seen

31:16 A lot of changes to the health care that lgbtq folks are able to access even I think it was about 2 or 3 weeks ago under the Trump Administration doctors in certain circumstances are allowed to deny trans folks are even if they're on the operating table and I don't know what kind of lawsuits could come out of that. I'm not a lawyer but I do know of people in my life who have been

31:55 Denied Healthcare or you know ridiculed at the doctor's office, which is supposed to be one of the safest places to go and be vulnerable, right and even myself I've had, you know, not great experiences and not to say that all this would change overnight with a new Administration these problems have existed long before Trump took office, of course, but I have a lot of fear. I am hesitant in a lot of areas of my life because of who I am and I don't I don't always know where it's going to be safe for me and I think about the work that I do and I fear for, you know the future of abortion access. I don't ever want to have

32:46 I know a kid who maybe needs an abortion or a friend or a loved one and then not be able to get that that Healthcare and there's there's so many other things but for the sake of time, I would say those are at the top of my mind but I think about these things and there's no easy solution to any of it, but I do I do have that fear.

33:16 You know what? I I really

33:20 I expected there to be things that you know are much different in your life than they would be in mine and I'm

33:29 I guess I'm grateful in a lot of ways that I don't have to be here that I'll be directly impacted by those things, but I certainly feel for you and understand the respect that you do and and you have every right to be and I you know, I think the the denial of care to People based on you know, they are lgbtq status I think is there's a lot of

34:00 Is Not Great public information out there about those situations I think you know, the general perception is about you know, well, why should I why should a guy be able to walk into the girls restroom and I and I don't think that there is a whole lot of thought put into the other things that probably are much greater factors, that would be

34:34 More complicated fixes than that and

34:39 You know, those are things that we we need to have better discussions about. Yeah, I can definitely stay for sure that anyone who identifies as a trans woman who is a trans woman is only in the restroom to pee. There's not enough.

35:03 Information out there to destigmatize

35:08 Can people

35:11 You know, even my own dad he was uncertain cuz he's had to be.

35:24 I think that there's you know what that's unfortunate. I think that there are some situations of you know, poor intention people that would potentially use that.

35:41 I guess.

35:43 They would make it. I believe one of the Sears this is people that are Express that concern is not so much that they are.

35:55 Homophobic in some way or whatever the appropriate term would be. I'm sorry if I didn't use the right term there, but I think it's the thought that someone with ill intentions May state that they are trans to gain access to do something that would be frowned upon from people of any background as you know, an act of pedophilia and so, you know, I think that there is it becomes a labeling, you know, all people are like this or all people are like that and it's instead of looking at gray areas and trying to find ways that you can overcome and be respectful of people who have no en pure intentions. They're just trying their lives and be

36:47 Yeah, that's that's definitely real. I remember there was some type of thing in the news about there's a lot of discourse around around the bathroom sometime around 2015 and my mom said something which was transphobic at the time and I definitely think that the weight of that awful discourse really kind of offset Mia coming out to her cuz it was just it was too much.

37:21 And bathrooms are scary for me cuz I never know what's going to happen, but

37:33 Yeah.

37:39 So

37:42 Let me ask you this question. Let me ask you what do you think you have any solutions if you could waive the one and you know, not make everybody do just what I want them to do. But do you have suggestions or or thought process that you think could be established policy-wise that would help improve things or you overcome some of these things that you're the most fearful of?

38:20 In later years. Yeah. I mean I think a good start is having Nationwide anti-discrimination protections for lgbtq folks that check all the boxes, but they do for you know, anybody else nothing special about it really but that and I think representation is important. I think especially for Trans people think they know who we are but they really don't and most people don't actually know a trans person in real life and I think making those personal connections and allowing trans folks into your space and listening to what they have to say is

39:04 Probably a good start for anybody who you know is trying to do better.

39:18 There should never be any yet.

39:22 It shouldn't be a debate or a controversy over listening and talk.

39:35 You guys want to stick around for just one more minute. I got to put it into the chat box now.

39:46 I will ask is there is there anything you've learned from our conversation?

39:58 You know one thing I say that I would have learned is I think

40:07 I didn't really learn specifics, but I Garner there's a lot more detail in some of the legislation that is.

40:24 Being debated and batted around out there affecting the LBGTQ Community. That's you know, I'm sure that I'm very unaware of and so it's something I need to be.

40:38 But you I would definitely say so I think something that I've been guilty of

40:46 You know coming from a town that is very rural and not the most accepting of a soaked such as myself. I definitely have found myself more closed off to these types of conversations because you know, they don't always end well, but I I think you know, this has been good for me because you know hearing, you know, you are perspective and hearing know your experiences that you've had with lgbtq folks the experiences that you haven't had its it's helpful to know that there are folks willing to listen who have a genuine interest in also, you know, making their communities better because I think at the end of the day, that's what we both want to do make the place that you know, we call home better for everybody.

41:47 I would agree with that. That's a great place to end it thank you guys so much for participating. What did you guys think about that?