Precious Smith and Lacey Wheeler

00:01 I am 39 years old today is November 5th 2020. I live in Wichita, Kansas and my partner's name is Lacey and she is like my one small step partner.

00:17 My name is wheeler and I am 34 and today is November 5th, and I am in Marquette, Kansas and my partner's name is and she is my one small steps partner.

00:35 And Lacey, why did you want to do this interview today?

00:40 What I wanted to do this interview because I find that my circles are fairly small and they all look alike. And I was really trying to find a way to connect with somebody that maybe has lots of different journey of life than I have. So I randomly heard this on the radio one day and I was like going for it. So that was kind of how I got here.

01:11 Lacey will you ask that question back to your partner? Yes, sorry. So precious. Why did you want to do this interview today over there was so much going on. Everything was so negative and it was just awful and I was on Facebook rolling one day and I was like you want to be when I'm going to have a conversation with someone different from you. I was like heck. Yeah, so I was like, I'll just fill it out and see what happens.

01:54 All right, so I am going to read your bio. I am currently a United Methodist Pastor who grew up in a very conservative Baptist since then I've become more liberal in my faith understanding and I'm seeking ways to broaden my understanding and listen to more voices and experiences of people of color. I currently live in a very small town mostly white and conservative. I'm looking forward to listening to someone else's life experience. Which differs from mine.

02:27 And what about the biome? Would you like to know a little bit more about precious? Well, I will say this when I read your bio it instantly said to me like when I saw you were a minister if you know when you get the minister by you kind of get like an impression of okay, this is what we working with. All right. So I love the fact that you are a minister going to pay look at you when I see you. There's nothing, you know, you don't appear ministerial if you will the fastest thing so that awesome and

03:09 You said you're you're in a very small town mostly white and conservative. Like how is that?

03:16 How does that work? Because you don't you don't appear to me as the typical white and conservative. So how does that work for you? It's it's a small town. It's like six hundred people and we just moved here in July. And so it has definitely been a learning curve for me. And because I think because I grew up in a conservative home those kinds of ways of thinking is not it's not foreign to me. And so it's you know the stuff that I'm hearing. I'm like, okay, I I've heard that you know, I know where that's coming from. So it's been it's been interesting for sure. I often feel alone in my political and even some his face Lionel understandings because this is a very different Community then yeah, then I would probably gravitate toward normally, so it's been very interesting.

04:23 Okay, Precious. I'm going to read your bio. Okay, I am a member of the lgbtq 2 + Community. I have children and enjoy learning new things. I have several Ms. Degrees and teach children. I'm an advocate for all people and human rights.

04:44 That is awesome. I read this and I was I was super excited cuz of the ocean sounds like an amazing person. I want to talk to her. So this is great. So I'm so curious about there's a lot of things. I'm curious about how let's see. Okay. So let's start with your what are your degree is? What did you study? Okay, so my bachelor's in psychology have a master's in counseling. I also have a master's in special education.

05:18 It's a bit. Do you use all of that and working with children now? So it's definitely helpful to have the counseling psychology and I'm curious about your experience in the lgbtq 2 + community. So has that been how has that been for you?

05:46 Oh gosh, it was so funny. I had this conversation the other day being lgbtq 2 + and black it's hard because it's like like I do well in the lgbtq 2 + Community as long as it's predominantly white but in the black community, it is not okay to be lgbtq to plus and black. It's like I can go and represent all of the black thing, but I can't represent any of the other thing that are in my life in my own community.

06:24 Wow.

06:26 Wow.

06:28 So have you have you experienced kind of that? Do you feel like there's a divided almost inside yourself like identity wise or how is always there's there's always it's always interesting when it's okay to bring it's okay to bring your black self and it's okay to bring your gay son, but it's not okay to bring them both into separate environment at one time and really it's really weird. Like I was on a community discussion and we were talking and you know, someone brought up the fact that we have programs for boys and girls I was like what what about individuals who are non-binary genderqueer don't identify as boys or girls. What are we doing? Why do we have to have something for them to?

07:15 Okay. Yeah, so, you know I was like because they exist and it's very necessary.

07:23 It's frustrating more than anything else and it really depends on the location and being in the Midway. People are always like what the Midwest is more Progressive than the South and I'm like but in this good Bible Belt and no you're not.

07:46 Who is been the most influential person in your life? What did they teach you?

07:54 Are the most influential person in my life has got to be my mom and I always cry when I talk about my mom cuz I hate this one of my most influential people. She knows she has the biggest heart of anyone I've ever met and she has compassion for

08:14 All people and you know, of course I grew up in a conservative home, but for her, it didn't ever matter. Sorry Princess didn't matter. You know, who the person was. I mean if her heart reached out to somebody she was going to help them and she was going to walk alongside them. And so I just she has taught me how to live with my heart and my passion do that has she's been very influential for me some Asian.

08:53 But what about you who has been the most influential person in your life? And what did they teach you?

09:01 Let me out my grandma.

09:04 My grandma was like the most amazing woman ever in a hundred 10 lb and I mean she was a liar like, you know, everything major thing. First name was it it doesn't matter what they call you. It's what you answer to this thing was like nobody likes a lazy person get off your butt and do what you need to do. The last was always represent yourself in every patient go into everywhere you go be you don't change who you are for anybody else and I have taken that with me my whole life.

09:47 That's awesome.

09:49 I would like to know how that plays, you know precious like that that the teaching of being yourself taking yourself everywhere you go how much that weighs on you or or how much that has affected these two worlds that you that you were talking about earlier kind of wrestling between and representing yourself within how do you think of your grandma in those moments every time all the time? Because like my grandma was up like old school Southern church lady like and when I came out, you know, my grandma was like

10:32 Yeah, you're changing who you are. I was like, I don't think so. I was like No And from that point it was okay. So I might get my grandmother who was like, I think she was like 6570 at the time if she can accept me coming out. I don't really care who else feels however, so I'm going to be me all the time and sometimes it's like it's really hard but I think about it and it's like, you know, it's better that representation is important. So, you know that little twelve-year-old kid. That's like I can't be myself but they look at me and they're like wait wait. Oh, oh, oh, you're dating someone who's the same sex issue? I can do that in public and be okay. Yeah, so it's like that representation is so important. So I try to try to live it I try to represent Everywhere I Go,

11:34 Could you briefly describe in your own words your personal political views?

11:42 Okay, so this has been for me. I am not where I was years and years ago I and I grew up in a very Republican home and I would say I'm more in the center now, I think I lean Democratic and I was sharing with Sarah the other day that I took a quiz on online the other day and I said I would libertarian. I'm not really sure where I'm at. But I know I care about people and you know, I want to fight for people who were who were being oppressed and around the margins and you know, whatever that looks like. So yeah, so I am still kind of working through all that and figuring out where I live.

12:31 I don't love I don't love being pigeonholed into one or the other and so I kind of feel fluid in that but yeah, so I'm still kind of working that out.

12:46 Gotcha.

12:49 What are the hot button issues for you? That's a great question.

12:59 Recently and I

13:03 And I I don't know how much of this stems from family conversation or just where I where I grew up but

13:14 Mistreatment of really anybody really gets me gets me fired up and causes me to

13:26 I live my call a little bit. I think I'm just anytime that I you know, somebody is is being mistreated or not not having fair treatment just really is difficult for me to understand why why we treat people differently depending on whatever it is, you know, whether it's based on sexuality or gender or or race. It doesn't it doesn't matter what the thing is just that, you know, when we when we treat people unfairly, it's it's hard for her for my heart to take so I thought that would be one for me.

14:11 Okay, Precious. Could you briefly describe in your own words your personal political values?

14:25 Honestly, I identify as Democratic only because you know in the current climate it was either Republican or Democratic for me because that's those were the two main parties that were on the ballot. So I wanted my boat to be important to account for so Democratic it was and you know might honestly like this year in this election. This is the first time that I remember my mom actually bony part of that was because I got on her last nerve, but I mean it was just I felt like it was that important and like for me I just

15:09 Any any group that any group to me that represents divisiveness and it's okay with there being this racial divide or being an economic divide or anything like that? I just can't get behind like definitely what you said fair treatment. I am an advocate for everything there in life. No, I can't I can't deal with I can't deal with people being mistreated either which is part of the reason that I teach special education because like I am all about advocating for those who can't advocate for themselves.

15:49 A beautiful. Yeah. So what are your hot button issues been for you is the poorest racism of course and then grease brutality is one of my major hot like me and then just lgbtq2 plus right is huge because at this point, you know, right now there is the Civil Right There nothing civil rights case but the case where they're trying to overturn the case, they gave lgbtq2 plus the right to marry. So that's my big e right now.

16:45 Play teen Jeopardy the Jeopardy song.

16:51 Put a couple more options in Hindi.

16:56 Optional if you guys want to start taking it and other directions, you're welcome to but these are some really good questions.

17:05 Okay. So do you ever feel misunderstood by people with different beliefs than you example by people from the other side of the aisle and how so

17:18 I would say yes.

17:27 And I I think I feel misunderstood Often by more conservative circles and maybe the more Republican side.

17:39 And when I when I have felt that way it's it's often because they have the same something in the media or they have read something that makes them think that because I am I lean more democratic or more on the left than they that they just kind of love me into whatever it is that and whatever conspiracy they think that is going on at the time and still.

18:07 I I feel

18:09 There's a lot of like being talked at in those conversations. I posed to be talked with and so it doesn't seem that. There's ever a great moment to be understood because it's just mainly one person talking at me with their perception really of what they think I believe ya which is also another reason that I was really excited about this conversation because it feels like this is set up really well that we can really listen to one another and speak together. So yeah, I think when I have experienced that it has just been more from the conservative side and it's been because their hearing a message that is very general and very

19:00 Feels very scared and then it gets kind of layered on to myself. So yeah.

19:11 Even with that like do you feel like like being that you're a minister that has to be hard that like, I mean, are you a minister at a church or do you have like a congregational in order?

19:27 Yeah. Yeah. I am. I'm a minister at a church here in my pet. And

19:35 Yeah, it it can be hard because as a as a pastor, I mean my my job is to listen and my job is to support and encourage and it can be hard because I hear I hear people very strong narrative about

19:55 Certain people that I happen to fit into that. Moulder those people that they're talking about, you know, and so it can be it can be hard but I have to remember that in those situations, but I really am there to to listen and to as much as I can express God's love and and Grace but yeah in the meantime, it can be it can be painful or sure.

20:23 How do you decompress from that like live? What do you do for yourself to get you to a point where it's like, okay. They're they're Talkin at me. They're not talking about me. So, how do you how do you handle it? There's this thing on Parks and Recreation where Leslie Knope is talking and she says when people are like yelling at her upset. She says I just remember they're caring very loudly at me and I keep that with me cuz I think they're not I really do have to separate like they are not talking about me personally. They have not ask me any personal questions about this and it it takes I mean it takes awhile to get into a different frame of mind is like not feeling attacked by that.

21:15 There have been times that people have said stuff to me and I walk away going to even know what they just said like to even know how hurtful that was. But yeah, so for me, I think it's reminding myself that

21:32 But they're not they're not meaning to be very being personal toward me about it. They're not meaning to like talk down to me and also to have support group email support systems family friends that I can decompress with Aunt Alice and I'm currently still in seminary. So I have a great group of students that are going there Cemetery with me that I I will often talked with them about like hey this happened today and kind of

22:03 Process it and that's always helpful.

22:11 Okay, do you feel misunderstood by people with different beliefs than you?

22:17 Well

22:21 Honestly, I

22:24 I don't know because like I surround myself often with very like-minded people like I'm a member. I have a member of the lgbtq 2 + sorority so, you know, sometimes by have any anything going on I'll reach out with my sorors. And other than that, I'm really I'm really kind of believe it or not. I'm really kind of introverted and I prefer like just to be in my own little bubble and in my own little space and it's like I come out of my bubble in out of my space, you know, I do things and then I go back to my bubble. So I try not to

23:03 Like I have this thing where I like internalized a lot. So since I'm I I know that I'm an intern lizer. I try not to allow those types of energy into my space because I don't want to have to I don't want to have to get into a position where I have to fight a flight if you will. I don't want to get into that face because it could happen and I just would rather not

23:30 How about that? Second question Lacy for your precious? I think that might be an interesting one to ask her.

23:39 Do you ever feel troubled by people with the same beliefs as you and for example people from your own side of the aisle and how they communicate those bleach the others. Absolutely. I really do. Like I'm I'm really a huge advocate for our lgbtq 2 + community and at the same time as an advocate, you know, there are protocols and procedures that you have to go through so that you can get things accomplished. There are ways that you have to go about things and it just burns my butter when like first of all I understand you can complain about what you're going through because if it's not changing I understand that but what bothers me is those people who go on these crazy Facebook rant.

24:32 But then turn around and like marginalize their own community. So it's like if I can lgbtq2 plus world. It's like, okay. So yeah, you're lesbian and you're dominant but you don't look masculine enough or your feminine and your lesbian, but you don't look quite feminine enough for you know, you don't quite fit the mold that we have with our heteronormative ideas. You don't fit that mold. Don't fit that role so I can't mess with you or you can't be part of my crew. Are you can't hang out with me because you don't fit my Mo and that's a problem for me that bothers me because I'm like, you know, whatever you say you are if you decide today you want to be a mailbox.

25:19 Do your thing and I'm just like you can't I hate when people bring in their heteronormative ideas into a nine-headed Road normative world and then get upset because people don't fit into the ideas and the moles they selected or created in their mind or other people and you can't do that. You can't make somebody sitting to your mole because that mole that you're comfortable.

25:48 So that's why I have those debate. How do they go because people you know, I found that people are very close-minded and one thing that I often like after going back and forth, maybe two or three times. My next question is always so we're having this conversation. Now are we having this conversation? Because you just feel like you want to converse or are we having this conversation? Because you are wanting to get information so that you can make a better decision than the one that you're making only those answers are and it's it's just it's hard especially again in the black community, man.

26:45 If it's like for the longest time, I think black people were the might the major minor right? So black people were the minority and they were okay with that but then there came another group which was black and gay which is even more of a minority then the major minority and that just didn't work out and it's like it's that constant if a constant just

27:11 So you just in time?

27:18 I had never thought about before that. I mean it's almost like an identity shift to it's in the black community that now there's this other group. But yeah.

27:33 Well, what subjects do you find hard to talk about in the normal world?

27:40 The Alexan, yeah, I find it hard to talk about politics because it's so he did and people are just so tense and even with the best intentions have a conversation about something I can go sideways real fast and even even recently talking about masks. I mean in our small community just you know, just talking about whether somebody is wearing a mask or not can light ignite fire and it's just kind of crazy. So yeah, so those are a couple of that I think.

28:28 What's the politics in anything that has a political charged as hard because I like I like for people to get along and I like her people to be able to like how you know feel good about the conversation and when it's stuff like that. It's just people can get mean.

28:49 Migrate

28:51 So again, I go back to you being a minister and and that being hard like

29:01 How did light how does that work for you? Because I know as like an educator there are certain things that we don't talk about with kids. You know and politics is one of them. Of course, we we have to talk about Mass because our kids have to wear masks to school. So like how does that work? Because I'm like like are you all having services with mass? Do you have to wear masks the church I like how does that go? Yeah, so where we are we're in a county that has not a mandated mask-wearing and so it's kind of up to the individual churches what they need and want to do and we have

29:46 Because I came in July which was in the middle of the pandemic. We I was going to introduce to this community during that time and they had already had in play that they were going. I just go by the County's suggestion and so really it's been a recommended a strong recommendation that people wear masks and you know what we are having in certain person services and but our church is smaller and so we can only we can only have it to 45 people in our Sanctuary the time and we have blocked off ARP. You said that people can you know social distance and we're an encouraging masks and but it's still I mean, there are people who definitely don't feel comfortable being in person. And so we're also live streaming and that has just you know, that helps people take an addict who are not here, but it's it's a major concern for a lot of a lot of our folks know there's some people who are not coming because

30:46 Because you know, they're just waiting until it's it's completely safe for us to be together and together. So yeah, it's been it's been hard to navigate that and to keep people say it's been said, yeah and with all the other attention but people are experiencing as you know, loss of job and the election and all of the thing. I mean, there's just so many factors going on right now. I think in people's eyes

31:17 Okay. What subjects do you find hard to talk about in the normal world?

31:24 Not not the one.

31:28 If I queef during me and and then like I have kids so, you know, there is nothing that I will not talk about my six-year-old ask the best questions ever. And so it's like what I'm really, so I mean, I will talk and can't talk about pretty much anything. I have the best political conversations with people. We never see eye-to-eye, but they're always green with excitement.

32:07 I admire that about you. I wish I could be there, you know, but hopefully one day but why honestly before I turn 39, I was probably I'm not going to say I was quiet. I've never really been quiet but I was very I was shy away from confrontation. I shied away from conversation. I just was like, I don't want to talk about that and because I was raised that, you know, people are seen and not heard. That's how I was raised and I turned 39 and I was like, I'm about to be 40

32:51 I know this isn't working. I'm going to say everything that pops in my mind and I'm going to say it and we're going to come verse about it. And you may not like it may not like you but that's okay. Honestly from that point forward. It's been like amazing and I had to I had to really just look at where I was in my life play. No ma'am. Let's get this together. Like my 6 year old is at that point where she's like, oh, mommy. She said something I didn't like but I didn't say anything and I was like, oh no ma'am. No ma'am. I said next time if you don't like it, you said you know what you have your opinion and I don't like it, but that's okay and you just keep it rolling always express your opinion and she's like that makes sense and I was like and then that night it was like Hey, I was like, it's bath time. She was like

33:47 Well, Mommy, I really don't want to take care of but I respect your opinion and I'm going to go take a bath.

33:56 Yes, I did this. She's she's a character and if I'm going to I'm going to be better and do better for her because she she's fixed. So if I you know, she immolate cheat meal has everything that she's bi and I'm like, I don't know where that we're not going to be silent, you know seen but no, no, we're not going to be

34:22 I love that in conjunction with the shirt that you're wearing. I love Kamala and she did say, you know, she was happy. We say I'm speaking I was like you had to work today.

34:47 So since we are close to just the five minute Mark left and it seems like the two of you found actually a quite a bit of Common Ground. Are there any other avenues that you guys think?

35:03 Did it might be beneficial to talk about that? Maybe you might disagree on?

35:09 Lacey were talking about being a Libertarian perhaps and usually that would mean less government less government.

35:23 Programs and just less government and in general do you align with that? And do you think I think that might be an interesting area to talk about my guess is what I'm saying? Yeah, I

35:39 Yeah, that's why I still I still feel like I'm still very fluid because when I think about I mean government assistance and things like that, I think is actually really important for people and that's a conversation that that I have had a lot with my immediate family because they they are very

36:03 Not for government assistance, but but I think that

36:10 When government helps people, that's a good thing when they can when there are programs that help help people to move forward and not just get stuck but moved forward that's that's also a good thing. So, yeah, but I think I've always I've always probably landed there more so but I also

36:33 I also think that the way that we have done things does not help people move forward necessarily, but it keeps keeps impressing people and it keeps people kind of stuck instead of

36:47 Giving people the resources that will actually help. Yeah, so I don't know if that answers your question.

36:57 Absolutely. It wasn't very well formed a funny thing though is that I really honestly feel like

37:10 I feel like there's been a major issue with some government program not giving people the tools and resources that they need to.

37:21 No longer need the government programs assistant instead of using the government assistance to instead of using those government programs to educate Empower and allow people to move forward. You know, it's like they're used to control people if you would like like a person that receives by tan of benefits. Do you receive benefits children and no job and then as soon as you get a job, even if it's a minimum wage job then. Assistant is no longer available. So then you need other assistance because your main source of health is now gone and know where have you been educated on what you need to do next, you know, how you need to help yourself or you know, you got these kids. What are you doing these kids? You know, I need to go to college.

38:21 Or are the parents being helped in this way as well. So I agree with with the government programs. Like I'm all for the government program, but I really want those programs to empower and educate and not spiteful and Doolittle.

38:43 Angry

38:46 So, how can we come together after such a divisive election year?

38:53 I think this is a good start I think conversation and and really listening to one another.

39:07 Although I'm not sure how how to teach that other than just through demonstrating that you know, I think sing one another's humanity is huge saying that we're all people but we all will hurt we all ate and finding some maybe commonality and our Humanity might help us. I don't know.

39:35 Not see one another as villains, but but it's just people you know who are here. So, I don't know I guess listening and really seeing each other is probably where I would start. What about you? How can we come together after such a divisive election year

39:55 First thing is I would definitely say listening to understand and not listening to respond. And that's like that's major because that's what people do we we hear people but we don't really listen to them to understand what they're saying and we listen to them to come back with a response in our Resort and honestly, it just starts with I just feel like if we all practice the Golden Rule treat others like you want to be treated and that really I think would do it. But clearly that's not that's harder to do than to say that just because people may not look like you or may not have the same background as you it doesn't mean that they don't have similar experiences or they don't have

40:55 Like

40:57 Similar ideas and just allowing people even if they don't look like you to get to know you and you get to know them.

41:10 Okay.